On January 8th, we mark the 60th anniversary of President Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty. In his State of the Union remarks, he called poverty a national disgrace and described it as a societal failure. He stated, “The cause may lie deeper in our failure to give our fellow citizens a fair chance to develop their own capacities, in a lack of education and training, in a lack of medical care and housing, in a lack of decent communities in which to live and bring up their children.” He signed into law the Economic Opportunity Act later that year, which would create job training programs, Head Start early childhood education, and a domestic volunteer program – now known as Americorps. It would also attempt to combat racial discrimination, which had marginalized people of color from fair participation in our politics and economy. It would later inspire cash assistance and tax credits that have shown to reduce poverty such as TANF, the Earned Income and Child Tax Credits. Policies, such as the Economic Opportunity Act, that strengthen family economic stability can go a long way toward reducing childhood adversity and supporting the relationships that help children thrive. While progress has been made in Johnson’s War on Poverty, it’s clear that there are still many battles before us as child and family poverty have not been eradicated. As Mark Cabaj discussed in our second episode, we often solve one problem only to expose or create another in this infinite game. For example, with our economic safety net, many families find themselves on the benefits cliff as they make too much to be eligible for housing vouchers or cash assistance, but too little to pay for what they need for their families. So how might we raise the floor on family economic stability, while lowering the ceiling on the cost of living? How might we better support overloaded families so that they may achieve economic stability? I invited Jessika Harlston to have this conversation today to share her lived experience and her role as a Financial Employability Planner to explore these questions. Jessika Harlston is a mother of 3 boys and a Financial Career Planner and Case Manager for individuals and families. In Overloaded, she shares her experience of becoming socially isolated that led to child welfare involvement, and then her powerful story of reconnection with her family and support system. Jessika shares that “so many people look at me as this woman who has it all; when in reality, I am just like everyone else. I cry like everyone else, I struggle like everyone else, and of course, I smile like everyone else."
Host: Luke Waldo
Experts:
:04-:20 – Jessika Harlston - “Everyone needs help in some shape or form. The biggest one, Luke, is the income limit. It shouldn’t matter how much a person is working or how much a person is bringing into the home, if that person needs help, let’s help them.”
:29-4:04 - Luke Waldo – Opening and Welcome
4:06-4:09 – Jessika – Thank you!
4:10-4:49 - Luke – How do economic challenges overload families with stress, and what do those challenges look like?
4:50-6:45 – Jessika – Jessika is a Financial Employability Planner (FEP). In her role, she helps individuals find employment. Many of her participants haven’t completed their education, so they often don’t have the academic skills. They also don’t have a work history, which makes it difficult to get an interview in the first place. Many also have children in their care that may have special needs or challenges, which makes it difficult for them to get work if they don’t have additional support for their kids. Lastly, some of her participants struggle with mental and physical health challenges, which can make maintaining a job difficult when all these stressors pile up.
6:46-7:11 - Luke – What other stressors make it difficult to gain employment?
7:12-10:05 - Jessika – Biggest challenge is homelessness. Housing instability can cause participants to miss appointments as they are worrying about where they will sleep next. Transportation is the second biggest challenge. They often hold appointments by phone to limit the impact of unreliable transportation, but it is a barrier to getting and keeping a job. Childcare is also a challenge as it’s difficult to access, and there is also mistrust. Many participants look for employment that they can do from home so that they can keep their kids home.
10:06-10:30 - Luke – Of those challenges that you just mentioned, which do you find most difficult for families to overcome?
10:31-14:20- Jessika – “They are all difficult to overcome. But I’d have to say homelessness.” Even when participants have Section 8 Housing vouchers, many landlords will not accept the vouchers unless they have 3 months’ rent or income outside of their reach. So many of the other skills such as job skills are dependent on one’s housing stability.
14:21-17:25 - Luke – We talked with our policy and research expert about the importance of public benefits such as TANF and housing vouchers. How many of your participants are able to access those benefits, and what are the benefits and challenges?
17:26-22:25 - Jessika – Too many resources are not accessible for many people living in poverty. Jessika was homeless, living in her car while she was employed, and attempting to access a job access loan. She was denied the job access loan because she made too much money even though she couldn’t afford a home. To access housing supports, they often need documentation from their landlord who doesn’t provide it because they don’t want to work with government assistance. It leads to people giving up because they work hard to get the assistance they need, and then nobody will allow them to use it.
22:26-25:02 - Luke – The frustration of the benefits cliff. What is often missing in the lives of your participants that makes their experience more challenging?
25:03-28:43 - Jessika – Many participants don’t have their high school education, which means that they have to start with basic education to get their GED. This takes a lot of time, energy and resources. Many don’t have access to the internet, so accessing the courses can be difficult to prepare for this. They also don’t have the social support that they need to overcome some of these challenges.
28:44-30:22 - Luke – What is underlying so many of your participants not having completed their high school education?
30:23-35:48 - Jessika – Incarceration, teen pregnancy, lack of support, hustling. Jessika tells a story of a participant who was incarcerated and had a child when he was a teenager due to growing up in a home where he had to hustle to eat and survive. He is now getting his GED. He is now learning how to care for himself, manage a home, care for his child, and keep a job in his late 20’s. Finding resources for single fathers can be uniquely difficult.
35:49-37:57 - Luke – What do overloaded families need to achieve economic stability?
37:58-40:21 - Jessika – They want to be heard. They also want to be engaged, supported and held accountable. Goal-setting and achievement are not skills that have been developed previously. Incentives can help, but keeping them engaged through ongoing communication is important.
40:22-43:02 – Luke – When we experience chronic toxic stress, our executive functioning is impaired and it becomes harder to set and accomplish these goals. How have you used Mobility Mentoring and its tools to support your participants?
43:03-47:25 - Jessika – Goal setting was the most important tool. In her case, it allowed her to assess what areas of her life she needed to set goals for. She had stable housing at her mom’s after leaving her abusive relationship, a bachelor’s degree, a stable job, so she wanted to focus on caring for her children and herself. In the case of her participants, she gives them an employability plan that helps them set achievable goals, and then works with them to be accountable to those goals and celebrate them when they achieve them.
47:26-49:38 - Luke – What needs to change that would support families to achieve economic stability?
49:39-50:51- Jessika – Remove income limits that create barriers to accessing public benefits such as housing or childcare assistance.
49:33-52:42 - Luke – The benefits cliff continues to be too low for too many families. What makes you optimistic?
52:43-55:26 - Jessika – Using her story to inspire others to accomplish their goals. Recognizing that we don’t all come from the same foundation, so offering support is critical in helping others achieve their goal.
55:27-56:53 – Luke – Jessika, what does your life look like today compared to when you were struggling?
56:54-1:01:06 - Jessika – I’m thriving because I have the social support that allows me to care for myself and my children. The stress of an unstable, abusive relationship made everything else so much more difficult. Her home is now safe, stable and peaceful. Her boys are surrounded by good role models and love.
1:01:07-1:02:17 - Luke – Closing and Gratitude
1:02:18-1:02:20 – Jessika – Thank you
1:02:23-1:04:09 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways
1:04:10-1:05:41 - Luke – Closing Credits
Join the conversation and connect with us!
Jessika Harlston 00:04
Everyone needs help in some type of way, shape or form. So the biggest one is the income limit. It shouldn't matter how much a person is working, how much a person is bringing into the home, that person needs help, let’s help them.
Luke Waldo 00:30
Welcome to season 2 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, where we explore the Critical Pathways that lead to child and family well-being and reduce family separations for reasons of neglect.
Hey everyone, this is Luke Waldo, your host for this podcast series and the Director of Program Design and Community Engagement for the Institute for Child and Family Well-being, our partnership between Children’s Wisconsin and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Helen Bader School of Social Welfare.
Luke Waldo 01:14
On January 8th, we mark the 60th anniversary of President Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty. In his State of the Union remarks, he called poverty a national disgrace and described it as a societal failure. He stated, “The cause may lie deeper in our failure to give our fellow citizens a fair chance to develop their own capacities, in a lack of education and training, in a lack of medical care and housing, in a lack of decent communities in which to live and bring up their children.” He signed into law the Economic Opportunity Act later that year, which would create job training programs, Head Start early childhood education, and a domestic volunteer program – now known as Americorps. It would also attempt to combat racial discrimination, which had marginalized people of color from fair participation in our politics and economy. It would later inspire cash assistance and tax credits that have shown to reduce poverty such as TANF, the Earned Income and Child Tax Credits.
Policies, such as the Economic Opportunity Act, that strengthen family economic stability can go a long way toward reducing childhood adversity and supporting the relationships that help children thrive.
While progress has been made in Johnson’s War on Poverty, it’s clear that there are still many battles before us as child and family poverty have not been eradicated. As Mark Cabaj discussed in our second episode, we often solve one problem only to expose or create another in this infinite game. For example, with our economic safety net, many families find themselves on the benefits cliff as they make too much to be eligible for housing vouchers or cash assistance, but too little to pay for what they need for their families.
So how might we raise the floor on family economic stability, while lowering the ceiling on the cost of living? How might we better support overloaded families so that they may achieve economic stability?
I invited Jessika to have this conversation today to share her lived experience and her role as a Financial Employability Planner to explore these questions.
Jessika Harlston is a mother of 3 boys and a Financial Career Planner and Case Manager for individuals and families. In Overloaded, she shares her experience of becoming socially isolated that led to child welfare involvement, and then her powerful story of reconnection with her family and support system. Jessika shares that “so many people look at me as this woman who has it all; when in reality, I am just like everyone else. I cry like everyone else, I struggle like everyone else, and of course, I smile like everyone else.
Jessika, thank you again for joining me today and welcome.
Jessika Harlston 04:06
Thank you for having me again. It's wonderful to be here, Luke.
Luke Waldo 04:09
Of course. So the focus of our conversation today is really to discuss the impacts of economic stability on overloaded families and and how economic instability conversely, can overload families with stress, overload caregivers with stress, and make it particularly difficult to care for their children the way they'd hoped to. And so I'd like to start with a broader question about economic challenges. And so what economic challenges do individuals and families experience that overload them with stress?
Jessika Harlston 04:51
Before we start, my employment is, I am a financial employability planner. And my job there is to help temporarily needy families and we help of all ages, families, husbands, wives, single mothers, pregnant women. So we help the whole spectrum on trying to get everybody employment. And the biggest stress that a lot of that a lot of families go through economically is they do not have the learning capability skills. So a lot of families don't even have a high school diploma or dropped out of high school at a very early age. So that's one big stressor. Even families that do have degrees, or at least a GED, a lot of families don't have the work history. So our families have very little work history to nothing at all. So that's another stress that we have to go through. As FEPs, as we call ourselves. Another stressor is a lot of families may have children that are physically or mentally disabled in ways. So this can cause a big huge stressor on a lot of families that have to care for these children who suffer from physical and mental abilities. And lastly is for the caregiver themselves, those who also suffer from mental or physical abilities. So it's the whole spectrum can be from a child to themselves to the individual themselves. So that's the whole spectrum of how much stress it can be on the caregiver, economic.
Luke Waldo 06:45
So Jessika, when you meet, when you first meet somebody that comes through your doors that is, as you said, not only struggling with employment, but is struggling with what is oftentimes seen as the necessary skills or degrees, right that employers are going to ask for right to employ them in the first place.
Jessika Harlston 07:11
The biggest one, and the number one is homelessness. We have so many people that come in that say they are homeless, and that is the biggest thing we have to take care of first. And being homeless can cause a person to not show up for their appointments. They're hopping from family member to friends to sometimes living in cars to living on streets, to living in shelters. So the displacement that a person or family has to go through being homeless is the number one thing we try to take care of as workers. So we try to create ways to create stable living situations. So we do ask families do you have somewhere stable and safe at least for you and your babies to be? If so can you stay there for over 30 days, so we try to say no more than 30 to 60 days, can you stay there. So we try to add some time limits on those. Transportation is another big thing as well. We do provide bus passes, bus cards to help people to get to our appointments. And we also help them to get to their employment, if we do have families that are employed in some type of way we do it that way as well. So with transportation, it does make it hard for families to get to appointments. So a lot of appointments are phone calls, but we try to least get to try to at least get the family to come in at least once. So we can at least see what's going on, at least see their faces, things like that. A lot of families do not have stable childcare. And we do have a lot of mothers who do not trust childcare at all because of what they hear in the news and the media, things like that. So that's kind of been a struggle for a lot of us because a lot of women don't want to have their kids sent to daycare. So a lot of mothers want to look for stay-at-home employment. And our goal is to really try to get families to go to get out of that space and try to get out and about to look for employment, sometimes at home jobs is you know, it's not stable enough. And we've been hearing about things about our home jobs. If you do have kids there. Sometimes they will let the person go. So we do hear things like that. So we tried to give mothers or families time and steer away from at home jobs but If it's necessary to where they need that, then we'll work with them.
Luke Waldo 10:06
Of those challenges that you've just mentioned, Jessika, which do you find the most difficult for families to overcome? So you've mentioned, unemployment, you've mentioned, the fact that many haven't completed their high school education. You've talked about transportation, housing, childcare, which of those do you find the most difficult to overcome?
Jessika Harlston 10:31
The most difficult, they're all difficult to overcome, but I must say, being homeless. And I say that, because we try to, a lot of families already started the process of being a Section 8, things like that. So once we hear that families get the approval of Section 8, or some type of housing funding, we try to work with the families to try to find landlords that are willing to work with participants who have Section 8 or having some type of housing, housing rewards. So what we have ran into is that a lot of landlords will not accept Section 8, or if they do accept it, the tenant has to have some type of stable income. And sometimes a lot of landlords will not accept government benefits, so that means two. So with that, that's a one-time payment a month with a certain amount, depending on the benefits that you are placing. And you want to get that once a month in the beginning of the month, and a lot of landlords want some type of at least two times the rent or lease, or at least 1 times of have a partial payment that you have to pay for. So a lot of things that we run into for housing is, if a person is in housing, they are so behind in rent, to the point like they're in a hole that they can get out of, we've had a lot of families that are in $1,000 in debt from being in housing because they can't keep up with the rent. A lot of us ask families, like what made you want to get into a housing building that is over your budget. And a lot of families will be like I was able to afford it at the time, which is understandable. But sometimes we have to kind of ask the participants like, okay, even though he was able to afford it back then, however, you also have to understand, you have to make sure that your income matches what your lifestyle needs to be. So that's where we have to kind of go into budgeting and have to teach these families how to budget. So it all ties in together, it just it's a way it's a tidal wave that goes from once we take care of one, it flows into another and it goes to the next or next to the next. So it's like a domino effect. But once we can get housing stability at least right, then we can at least work on the income and then work on the job skills and then work on the transportation. And a lot of families who are working may have a job to where they can apply for a job access loan, which is something that my job will assist. And the job access loan is something where we will give a participant who was working, the loan can be up to $1,600, they will have to pay it with no interest at all. They'll have to pay no more than $100 per month. And that combined that can help them with their housing situation. It can help them get transportation so they can get a down payment on a vehicle. It can help with work equipment if they need work equipment for their work. So all of our resources have to help them keep not only employment, but also stable housing. So those are our two big main columns when we work with participants, stable housing, and nexus income.
Luke Waldo 14:21
Thank you, Jessika. That's really, really helpful. My next question. I'm going to change up a little bit here it was it's it's really about the supports that are missing in an individual's life or a family's life that make those kind of economic challenges even more challenging, and I was thinking of that in the terms of what sort of kind of social support is missing, right? When we think of course about homelessness, right? Homelessness occurs for a lot of different reasons, right? Economic shock, somebody loses a job, or somebody maybe doesn't even lose their job but loses income, like you mentioned, and it's therefore now too expensive to be in the place that they are living. But there's also the fact that when somebody loses their home, if they have social supports, right, whether that's extended family or close friends, they at least can temporarily stay with with that family. And unfortunately, there are a lot of people who don't necessarily have those social supports for lots of different reasons. But you had mentioned something that I think is really important in this conversation, which is, we also have a quote unquote, social safety net. Right. So you mentioned Section 8 housing vouchers. You mentioned W-2, right, which is our temporary assistance for needy families programs, which include, you know, essentially, your cash payments, monthly, as well as access to food, things along those lines. I'm curious, let's start there. Because you mentioned and I think it's really important that we explore this, because in our other conversations about economic stability with our research and policy experts, we talked a lot, of course, about the importance of things like W-2, and housing vouchers, and tax credits, like child tax credits and earned income tax credits. And you've now talked about right, loans that might be available to folks. I'm curious, though, how many of your participants when you first meet them, who are coming to you obviously because they are experiencing some level of economic crisis, right, or economic instability? How many of those folks do you see not able to or not aware of the resources, those quote unquote benefits? And how many of them are not not currently accessing them? Or how many of them are aware of those resources, but aren't able to use them? Like you said, when it comes to landlord saying, I don't take that I don't I, you know, I don't, or I only take that as well as your evidence of your income, right? So I'm curious if you could just talk first about that. And then we'll go into what are the other things that might be missing in their life that lead to economic instability.
Jessika Harlston 17:26
The biggest thing, and I said this in a conference is so many resources with these resources cannot be accessible to people. And what I mean by that is, for example, if a family member, and I'm even used myself for this one, because I definitely experienced this. When I was homeless, sleeping in the car, I actually still worked for the employer that I work for actually. I applied for a job access loan to try to get my family out of living in hotels and sleeping in cars. Unfortunately, I made I was fortunate, I will say, that's fortunate, but unfortunate, I made too much in order to make enough to get the job access loan. You have to make a certain amount of you have to make a certain amount of income in order to get a job access loan. And the biggest thing we run into is when families do have income. And it's a resource out there that they can possibly use to help them with housing, to help them with transportation, to help them get work equipment, when they apply for it, and we put in the system, we put their income in the system. And it turns out, they make too much so then that's why we have to let this family know like, I'm sorry, but unfortunately, you make too much in order to get this loan. And that is the biggest heartbreak that we get I have to say because I'm an emotional person and my biggest thing is trying to help the family. And when we cannot help families that actually needs the help is the biggest struggle ever to endure and try to let the next person to let this family know like we can't help you. We work, we can't help you, we can't help you. And what we, what you need help on we cannot help you with. Another thing is for cash benefits. We have something that's called emergency payment where you cannot receive any benefits first, you have to get before you receive your benefits. You can use this payment. This payment is up to $1,000. Um, in order to have this payment, you have to be in some type of housing crisis situation. A lot of people don't have documentations to give us to kind of show that they're in crisis. A lot of families won't admit that they're in a crisis like that until it really hits the fan. A lot of families ask landlords for some type of documentation. So they can give to us. And a lot of landlords will not give the tenant documentation because they know they're trying to get government assistance and a lot of landlords will not accept it. So it's really hard to try to help these families that actually need to help them when we have the resources that kind of in a way, refusing to work with us, refusing to accept these benefits that we're trying to give these families. I had a client yesterday that is, and got accepted a Section 8 housing voucher, and she got her voucher. But her struggle is now having a landlord accepting this voucher. And she's living with a friend, has been living with her friend for almost over a year. So now she's like, now, I'm trying to move out of my friend's house. And it's kind of hard because nobody is accepting this voucher, what am I supposed to do? And it's kind of hard to even, but like, it's hard for us to say to this participant, you got to keep working with people, you got to keep asking her to keep looking around and buyers going, somebody's gonna want to work with you just keep going, just keep looking. And sometimes it does get stressful on that person, because they can go to so many people, and so many people will say no, so it can get very devastating to the point that they will give up. And we've had a lot of participants who have given up because no one is willing to help them. No one is willing to accept what the help is trying to, what the help is trying to do. So, just overall, the resources that we can give, if I will, next person has to learn to accept it. And that'd be the hardest part to let the person know like they will not accept it or to hear that they won't accept something that we're trying to give them.
Luke Waldo 22:26
Right. Yeah, I think you're what you what you've shared is is both deeply powerful, and really, really frustrating to hear, right, Jessika. And for some people, this might be the first time they hear it. I've been working in this field for a long time, it's sadly not shocking. To me, this is a long-standing issue. But I appreciate you sharing your own experience, so that people can understand that somebody who is working, is employed as a financial employability planner, who is working with others who are struggling with employment and economic stability. She herself found herself homeless. Right, while while providing that service, while gainfully employed. And as you mentioned, this is the challenge that we hear too often is that here you are working, getting paid, and yet not getting paid enough to be able to afford rent. And yet you're not eligible for some of the assistance that would allow you right to be able to kind of get over, right that barrier, right and to find that the home that you and your family deserve. You're doing all the things that people, that our society expects of us right to go in, and get a job and be the best parent you can be. And here you are, right, sleeping in your car, or trying to find a place where you and your family can can rest your head every night and hopefully build a home. So it's really hard to hear. And yet, these are barriers long standing that we really need to confront. And we'll have that conversation towards the end of all of our chat today. So I also want to just explore briefly, the other supports that you see that are really missing in the lives of the people that you serve, that make those economic challenges even more challenging. Yeah, when you think of their relationships, yeah. When you think of the communities. When you mentioned you started our conversation with the fact that many come to you without having finished high school. What are some of the stories that you hear from participants that help you understand what was missing or is missing in their lives that led to the current situation?
Jessika Harlston 25:03
So, another big thing is a lot of our participants do not have a high school education. We have a lot of participant who are in their mid 30s, 40s, and some early 20s or so that have not finished their high school diploma. So a lot of families only finished to 10th grade, some only finish to 11th, most finish only to 11th. So it's most of them have to finish a two, one or two years of high school. So the next thing that a family will need to do is take a tape test, which is something they will need to do for writing, math and English. I think that's what they're graded on those three. And the biggest thing with the tape test once they take it is that most participants are still at an elementary school level. And what makes it hard is that these families need their high school to meet a GED class and they cannot even get there. And so they start off with the basic education. So a lot of families thinking like, Oh, I'm trying to get my GED where it's like, you have to start from the beginning. And once we let that participant know that they have to start with basic education, it's almost this time-consuming, it can take up to almost six months for a participant to get their GED. Sometimes it can take up to a year, depending on their situation and if they decide to take a break if they gain employment. So it's always something that may stop them from continuing to finish their classes. A lot of things didn't even be something where they don't have a support system at home, meaning they do not have access to internet or Wi-Fi do not have access to get into a library. So a lot of we do ask participants to get a library card so they do have access to computers to do any type of classes or do any type of job skills training or even to apply for employment. Another big thing is a lot of families may not have the support system as far as maybe watching kids where a family may not have childcare established, it can hinder a person to go to school or even to go to interviews. And that's a lot of things that we've been hearing from our participants that I have my kids with me, so how am I supposed to go to these interviews? I have my kids with me, how am I supposed to participate in these activities when my kids are with me all the time? So that's when we step in, and we come and be like we can help you get childcare. But you're going to have to look for childcare. And that big struggle is what if I don't trust daycares? You're gonna have to give or take, you're gonna have to sacrifice something. If you're trying to get employment, you're going to have to put your child in some type of childcare in some type of way, shape, or form. And a lot of families will be like, Oh, my auntie, or my Grandma's gonna be starting a daycare around this time. So can I just do something between now and this? And it's like, no, you have to do this. Now, if you want employment, you'd have to put your child in childcare. So it's kind of that battle that we have to have with parents as well. So it's interesting every day is a very interesting thing to hear from families, but they wind up compromising in the end.
Luke Waldo 28:44
Jessika, we talk a lot on this podcast, and a lot of our focus on our initiative is really understanding the root causes of these challenges, right? And you've come back a couple times now to the fact that a lot of the participants you work with struggle with employment, and then all of the other things we've talked about homelessness and childcare and transportation and so on because of the lack of income. But I want to explore the fact that so many come to you without a high school education. And as you've just shared, that goes way back, right? In many cases, as you've mentioned, we're not talking about young people who just you know, decided that 11th grade, I don't want to go to school anymore. You're talking about people who have clearly struggled with school for a lot of their life, right? Because you're talking about people who are struggling with even the basic educational skills that are necessary to then go back and get their GED. Can you share maybe some of the stories or, you know, a summary of many of the stories that you hear that contributed to the participants dropping out of high school and why? Why did so many of them struggle with school from an early age, what was happening in their lives, in their homes, in their schools, that led to them not being able to not only finish high school, but have the skills necessary to be able to finish high school?
Jessika Harlston 30:24
Some is because they were incarcerated. Some are they were, they got pregnant and dropped out. Some is they didn't have the support they needed to finish. And some situations, they chose hustling instead of an education. So the stories can go on forever. But those are the basic, the main incarcerated, pregnant at an early age, felt like they didn't have the support they needed. School shut down. Even some people said they did some school online. So you know, online school, however they're supposed to be. But that's really the basics that we hear that the biggest ones is incarcerated, pregnant. And when we hear things like that, and we ask them like, whoa, what got you incarcerated, what was going on during that time? I have a client that was incarcerated during high school. And now he is in the process of getting his GED. And he's going to be graduating in two weeks. So hearing history and how he was incarcerated, because his life was based off the hustling. He was living in a family where he has a family, I think of 12. And he is the fifth or sixth child. So having a spectrum of kids from almost 30, I think, to the age of maybe seven or 10 is a lot. So he was growing up in a house where he didn't know what paper towels were. He didn't know how a basic functioning house is. He only use what he had in his house. He washed his body with his own shirts that he can fit no more. Even though his mom was on food stamps, he had to steal food, in order to, you know, to feed himself. And then he wound up having a child at a very early age. He had his first child, he had his first child at the age of 13, when he told me, so that's another thing that kind of hindered him. So now he dropped out of school completely to try to provide for his child now. And it led to him being incarcerated during his 10th grade year in high school. So he's been incarcerated for like three years. So his mother raised some of the first three years of his life. And then when he got out, he decided to change his life wanting to get himself together. And he started doing the right proper steps to need to do so he enrolled himself to try to get classes done. He was very smart. He was on his way to get scholarships and things like that. But due to his personal life at home, it got in the way. But now he says on the verge of graduating to get his GED, so people can do it. It's just a lot of things at home can hinder a lot. So having that, not having the resources I say he did not know what a functioning house look like he did not know family is supposed to sit at a table and eat. He did not know that soap existed did not know that. How hard things are like that when I heard his story, it was like what the resources to really be a functioning individual. Now that he's living on his own, he's actually learning to have a functioning household. He's learning to have responsibility to pay his bills. He's learning how to make a house, a home having paper towels, having a stove and a fridge, learning how to cook. So he has to regain all those basic learning skills as an adult that he should have learned growing up. So it's now that he's 20-something, 29 I think he's like 27, 28. So now that he's at that age, he has to relearn all these skills and this was something I learned back in your, you know, the younger years, so I knew all of this and now that he has to know they learn this. So anyways, I'm helping him how to be a functioning father, how to be a responsible individual, where to go to if he needs to find his son a coat, pantries that he needs to go to so he doesn't have to steal from stores, he can go to a food pantry and get food. So showing him where to go. And even as a man is hard as well, as a male, it hinders as well. So a lot of benefits is not for a lot of males, it's really a lot for women. So that's another kind of a challenge when we're dealing with single fathers is finding those resources for single fathers.
Luke Waldo 35:49
Thank you, Jessika, for for sharing that particular example. And I think before we move into his transformation, and more generally, what leads to economic stability for an individual and for families, I do want to just kind of acknowledge some of what I heard from you in your previous response. And that is that many of the individuals who didn't finish high school who are coming to you then to finish their GED, and so on. They themselves came from homes where there was high levels of stress, as you've mentioned, in his case, that stress was primarily due to the fact that there was pretty significant poverty, right? And then, as you mentioned, a lot of a lot of a lot of children to care for, and therefore likely a lot of just a lot of instability and stress that led to, as you've mentioned, some decisions that he made to survive, in many cases, right? You talked about him having to steal food, you know, the very basic needs of hygiene and things along those lines were just not met, and therefore he didn't learn them. Right. So it's one thing to not learn the skills, it's another thing to be living in that sort of stressful environment that just makes it very difficult to learn. Right. So I appreciate you for sharing his story. And I'm, you know, moved by the fact that he is in a much better place. And in some cases, as we've talked, in our other conversation, a single person, that that social connection, that that trust with another person can really make all the difference. And so I want to move to how we can support families, you know, what, what ultimately, is needed to improve their economic stability. So when you think about the participants that you work with, and your own situation, what do you believe really helps individuals and families the most to improve their economic stability?
Jessika Harlston 37:59
The biggest thing is, sometimes these families just need to be heard. When you hear these families' stories, sometimes they just want to just vent their stories out to where like, they want to be heard. And that's all sometimes they just want to be known for it's just be heard. And once they are heard, they feel like their questions will be answered. And sometimes the answer may not be the right one. But far support-wise, a lot of families like how we are accountable for them, we keep holding them accountable for what they need to do with their lives not being stable themselves is hard for them to create, the stability they need for themselves, is really the basic support that they need that will make every that will make everything flourish. They just want to be heard. Hold them accountable for their actions, and where they try to go continue to push them to thrive. And also you might want to give some incentives, of course, of course. But sometimes the incentives is just there to kind of to help them where whatever's going on in their lives. So a little pocket change for them. This is good as well. But besides incentives that they know about, it's just really keeping them engaged, keeping them, keep the support going. Communication, definitely the biggest thing we try to do is communicate with our participants, at least one family at least once a month. Sometimes we talking to the same family for a whole week. Sometimes we we see this same family every day for like two months, just because they just want to be heard and just want to know where am I supposed to go? What do I need to do? And that's a live question. What do I need to do? Well, first off, let's talk about what steps you need to take, let's break down where you need to start, we always try to make sure the focus is on them or where they're trying to go. We're trying to teach them to set their own goals for themselves. So they can continue to learn to set those goals for themselves.
Luke Waldo 40:23
I appreciate Jessika that, that you've really focused this particular answer on one, obviously support and engagement with a person that they trust, and that holds them accountable. But to really, this, this idea of right, setting concrete goals, holding them and asking that they themselves hold themselves accountable to that goal, and really celebrating or providing some sort of incentive, right? Because I think we underappreciate, as a society, right, all of the stories that you've shared, and the impacts that those experiences have on one's ability to do something that oftentimes we take for granted, which is set a goal and accomplish it and move on. Right. So a reminder, when we experience chronic toxic stress, which is what a lot of the participants that you work with have experienced not just recently, but throughout their lives. So you've mentioned this young man, right, who grew up in a household with 12 to 11 other siblings living in poverty, who had to hustle right to make sure he had food and clothing and the things that we all again, need to live our lives and, and prosper, right? That that chronic stress makes it very difficult, right to accomplish the the tasks that we need to set out each and every day to work through our day, right? To get up, get ready for work, go to work, do our job, do it effectively, and so on. It's very, very difficult, our brains are wired differently when we're living under chronic stress. So I want to reiterate the fact that these skills that we all, oftentimes take for granted, are developed when we have the environmental conditions that that allow for it. And a lot of people do not have those environmental conditions. So having somebody who can coach them through it, right and can help them then, you know, create an environment that is safe and stable enough to be able to do it is really important. So thank you for sharing that. So you and I met because you worked with Ayesha. And a tool that we use here at Children's called Mobility Mentoring. And so you've talked a lot about many of the kinds of strategies and tools of Mobility Mentoring that you use in your practice. So can you talk more specifically about how you use Mobility Mentoring or its tools in your work with participants, and what you find has the greatest impact on on those participants?
Jessika Harlston 43:02
The biggest thing that helped me the most was goal setting. I knew what goal setting is, and was but I didn't know where to start. So it helped me create my goal-setting strategies going from the bottom into the top. It helped me start, Okay, where am I trying to go? All right, I am trying to list name the things I'm trying to do within the year. I'm trying to get housing, stable employment. You know, financial stability, the basics. Alright, how to get there? Well, right now, I had to think for myself, for example, I was staying with my mom. So I knew I had stable housing for right now. So I knew being with my mom, I really didn't have to worry about as far as housing, but it was gonna come. But I have stable housing to where I'm like, All right, I'm cool for right now. Next was employment. I have a bachelor's degree. So I knew I was educated. I graduated from high school, graduated from college. So I knew my ability as far as finding jobs was fortunately easy for me compared to my participants. But in a way, it could still be even a challenge for myself, especially with the situation that I'm currently still dealing with. So once I found my employer who I'm working with now, I told her about what was going on with me, but they still accepted me I still was like you're still capable of doing the work. So once I got hired on I was like cool hired on. I know I can keep the job because I know I'm able to keep anything. So my goal was alright, keep this employment and start creating stable income, start saving and continue to do what you need to do. So at that time, we'll be staying with my mom, I was able to save up, I was able to save Well, my income I was able to leave, be able to spend on little luxury things to still keep my boys, maintain and keep myself maintained. Once I kind of got my husband out of the picture, that kind of created unstability for us, I'm going to admit that. Some families that I dealt with when they do have a significant other, it does hinder the entire family completely. And once that significant other is gone, that person can thrive. I've had participants in the situation, and I'm one of those people that once my spouse was gone, I was able to thrive the way I needed to. And sometimes that is the biggest challenge for even our participants who are women. If they do have a significant other, the father of the child, things like that, it can definitely be a hinder. Yeah, we're wrapping up for goal settings. That's the biggest thing. Just, it's all about basic steps that you need to climb up the ladder on. Once you finish this step, what's the next step you need to do? You need to work on this step. All right, let's do this step. Once that step is accomplished this welcome to the next step. So it's all about stepping stones that we create for our participants. So as long as you're creating a path for yourself, you're able to walk your own path. And that's what we try to do with our participants. We give them this employability plan, where we like, Alright, what's your goal? You want to work this? What's your second goal? You want to get a certificate in getting your CNA training? All right, cool. Then we do what's a personal goal of yours, create stable income? All right, those are your goals. What's next? Now you need to work on getting your job skills training. All right? Do you have the work skills? No. So you need to work on some soft skills, you need to work on mock interviews, need to work on resume building. So start you off with the basic training, then let's work on doing this work on doing that. Let's work on doing that. And once that participants sees the actual steps to getting where they need to go, it gives them a visual on how they need to set goals in their lives. So once they see it for themselves on paper, they're able to do it, and function in life.
Luke Waldo 47:26
Thank you, that's, that's really, really helpful. And I do think having that clarity, again, is an underappreciated skill. Right? And that oftentimes requires having another person that's there alongside you in this journey, right? And, you know, I know you talked a lot about the importance of Ayesha in your journey, and clearly you've been really important to a lot of your participants journey, as they've worked through their goals. So I want to, I want to kind of wrap our conversation today to just kind of go back to our the beginning of our conversation and kind of pair it with what we've just talked about and the strengths that you provide, or that you've been provided when it comes to things like Mobility Mentoring, and goal setting and so on. What, what do you believe, has to change whether that's in our society, in our policies, in our supports, what has to change, so that families and individuals have what they need to achieve economic stability and to be able to really prosper in life?
Jessika Harlston 48:39
Oh, I feel like I can I can really rant about this. Because me and my co workers talk about this all the time. When it comes to be able to provide for our participants. The biggest thing is income limit. Take that out. These families need help. Why should a family need a certain amount of income when a certain amount of income should not matter? If a family is coming, saying they need help, let them be serviced and get help regardless on how much they're bringing into the home. What is bringing it what's not coming into the home is not able to, to provide for a family of four, for example, I'm claiming some I need help, take that income limit out. That's the biggest thing that frustrates me the most being being a FEP worker is the income limit. I hate to tell families that they are over income, because that shouldn't matter how much you bring into your home. If you're bringing in $2500 home every month and your rent is $1500, it and, for example, your food stamps, you only get $169. And you go yourself and three kids, that's not enough to suffice. Now only you have to pay your rent, your utility, your car note, a lot of that comes into play, when people have these type of responsibilities of stable person can still need help. Everyone needs help regardless on how much they have in a pocket, how much they bring into the home, if they not bring it into the home. Everyone needs help in some type of way, shape or form. So the biggest one is the income limit. It shouldn't matter how much a person is working, how much a person is bringing into the home, that person needs help. Let's help them.
Luke Waldo 50:53
That's really powerful, Jessika, because I think we, again, don't have a great understanding of, as you put it, the kind of income limits or what was oftentimes referred to as kind of a benefits cliff, right? When somebody quote unquote, makes too much money. But as you've mentioned, making too much money to be eligible for some of these economic supports, is not enough money anymore. For the rising costs of rent, the rising costs of transportation, it just makes it really difficult. And I just appreciate how you framed it. Right? If a family is coming and asking for help, which we know is a hard thing for people to do. Right? It's really, really difficult to hear that we have made it so that those families are not eligible for that help. So I appreciate that, that request that plea for change, that we need to be able to help families when they are asking for help. And, we have the services and resources oftentimes available, but we are, we're kind of locking families out based on limits that just in reality don't work, right. So. So let's, let's finish with some optimism, because you keep doing this work, and your energy is infectious. And so I want you, Jessika Harlston, to tell us, what makes you optimistic that we can make the changes that we need to make so that families can achieve some form of economic stability for themselves and for their families?
Jessika Harlston 52:43
I just take my story and just play it every day. I tell these families, please don't let the screen fool you. Because I was just in your shoes not that long ago, I was homeless, I was living in cars. I was living in hotels, I was living in parking lot. I lived with my mother, I had to let my spouse go. I'm thriving now. So no matter where you come from, you're able to thrive if you put the work in to thrive, when you have families that never put that much work into the lives not that they have to, they have to push themselves. And that's something that we have to continuously work with our participants. It was easy for me to do the work because I came from a working background. These families are not coming from a working background. These families are not coming from a stable house. These families are not coming from an educated background. So sometimes I had to kind of let go of my upbringing to look and see like just because of my upbringing being positive, I still crashed, I still fail. And now that I've fallen, we can all rise back up. You just have to work at it. Even though that's not something you're used to. I'm here to work with you to get there. Let's just do it one day at a time, one step at a time, you have to do your part. I can only do so much. Once I do this for you. You have to do the rest of the way. Come back to me, we need help. I help you but you still have to continue the rest of the way. So that there has to be this thing, taking my story and replaying it every day. And just reminding myself like I can be sitting in this chair too. And reminding my participants you can be in my chair and you could be servicing me. So no matter where you come in in here um Still just like you, I still struggle just like you. I still stress economically just like you. Please don't let my title, my background, my education, hinder or be I guess a blow for not for you to be successful. No, everyone could be successful, you just have to work.
Luke Waldo 55:28
So I do, I do hope that listening to your story, Jessika and your transformation is, is a source of hope and inspiration for lots and lots of our listeners. I do want to finish with one last question that I think I've failed to ask thus far. And that is you thinking about your experience, and the stress of homelessness and the stress of the relationship with your spouse, and the impacts that that had on your ability to parent. I'd like to talk about what it looks like today. Right? You've talked about your transformation and your journey and how you have worked through all of those challenges to get to this moment now. Can you tell me what it looks like to be a mother of your young children today, with the stability that you have created in your life, compared to what it looked like, when you had the stress of the both economic instability, housing instability and kind of the relationship instability that you had? Previously, can you talk a little bit about what it looks like today, compared to what it looked like then?
Jessika Harlston 56:54
Today, I'm thriving. I have peace. I, I smile, I look at what I have, and where I came from. And I just appreciate the work not only myself put in, but the support system that I had around me, even though the situation that I came from kind of was jacked up to now where I'm at, but I'm not ashamed of it at all, because I thrived. I had to take what I had, and make it work for me and thrive. And I must say, I came a long way. And I'm still gonna continue to every step of the way just keep thriving, to continue to better where I came from. I'm able to love my kids better. Not having the fact of worrying about what are we gonna eat the next day, am I gonna have enough money to pay for our meal, I'm able to pay for my kids' meal every day. I'm able to buy them clothes, every other week, when I get paid with no issue. If my sons need something, I'm able to buy it right then and there. Buy me gas in my car, I'm able to put gas in my car. If I want to go take me out on a lunch date just because I want to I'm able to do that without the struggle of not only a spouse, hindering me but also my housing stability situation my employment, I have to admit even for myself, having my spouse continuously there. If he would have stayed there I would not have thrived the way I have. I would not have housing the way I do. My employment I probably would not have anymore. I will probably still be homeless. I will not be maintained as I am, my boys would not be thriving the way they are. A lot would have been hindered because of an unstable situation. And by having an unstable relationship that I had to deal with it definitely hindered a lot within our household. And now without that relationship, my household is able to thrive in a way that I have the control to have to make it live. I have control. I don't have nobody controlling my house. I have that control. And it's a very peaceful environment. It's a loving environment, it's a safe environment, biggest one is safe, it's a safe environment, it's peaceful, it's loving, it's welcoming, my family is more involved than what it was back then. My family was not too much involved with my spouse being there, now that my spouse is gone, to be able to have that support system where I can have my family help me raise my three boys in a very successful way. My boys will know to be mannered, my uncle being around being that next male figure, it's structure in my life now compared to what it was. So it driving is so much better than where I came from. I am at peace, and humble, and also forgiven. And that was for myself, for allowing, not only myself and for my kids to continue to be very peace, very thriving.
Luke Waldo 1:01:07
Thank you, Jessika. And it's, again, a real, real pleasure and honor to have met you and to, to be on this journey with you as you share your story and your family story with us. So I appreciate you for taking the time again, to share your story to to share some, I think, really powerful insights as to how important not only economic stability is in one's life to kind of provide that peace, as you've mentioned, and safety in one's home. But also the importance of having a person or people in your corner, right, whether it's an Ayesha, or your family, right, or a financial employability planner in your life. That matters, right? And so I appreciate you sharing, sharing that story. So with that, I'm going to say thank you one last time, and allow you to get back to your family today. So thank you, Jessika, and I wish you all the best.
Jessika Harlston
Thank you.
Luke Waldo
I want to thank Jessika again for sharing her personal story and her experience as a Financial and Employment Planner. I hope that today’s episode and insights from Jessika have you thinking more about the many complex challenges that overloaded families face, the barriers that exist within our systems, and the importance of a single person’s belief and support in another person’s life. As always, I want to highlight three key takeaways to reflect on before we move onto our next episodes.
Luke Waldo 1:04:12
Thank you for joining us for today’s conversation. We hope that you will come back and listen next week as we continue to explore the Critical Pathways that lead to child and family well-being and reduce family separations for reasons of neglect.
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To learn more about the experts that you heard today, visit the Show Notes, which is where you will also find links to sources or information that were mentioned in today’s episode.
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This podcast would not have been possible without the support and talents of Carrie Wade, who is responsible for our technical production and original music composition. I can't express my gratitude enough to Carrie for all she has given to this project. I'm also grateful to my team at the Institute for Child and Family Well-being at Children’s Wisconsin, who drive the Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and contributed to the ideas behind this podcast. Finally, I would like to thank all of our speakers that you have heard today and throughout the podcast for their partnership, their willingness to share their stories and expertise with me and all of you and their commitment to improving the lives of children and families. I'm Luke Waldo, your Host and Executive Editor. Thanks again for listening and see you next time.