So far this season, we’ve tracked the big picture, the public narratives that shape our culture. We’ve examined the harmful patterns where radical individualism intersects with caregiving that turns collective crises into personal failures and therefore shrinks our sense of shared responsibility. But today, we’re going inward. Because these dominant narratives don’t just exist out there in policy or the media. They live inside us. They are the scripts we recite when we look in the mirror, when we look at our neighbors, and when we decide who belongs and who doesn’t. Jess Moyer and the FrameWorks Institute remind us that these are internalized, creating mindsets that act as filters. Today, we turn inward to examine those internal filters, our mental models, the deeply held beliefs that too often divide us and limit our own capacity for change. Today, we are asking: What happens when those filters limit us? What happens when the stories we tell ourselves keep us from seeing our own power, or the humanity of the person standing right next to us? This is Episode 3: The Stories We Tell Ourselves.
Overloaded: Understanding Neglect Season 4
Show Notes: Episode 3: The Stories We Tell Ourselves
Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):
Host: Luke Waldo
Experts:
00:00-02:20 – Luke Waldo - So far this season, we’ve tracked the big picture, the public narratives that shape our culture. We’ve examined the harmful patterns where radical individualism intersects with caregiving that turns collective crises into personal failures and therefore shrink our sense of shared responsibility. But today, we’re going inward.
Today, we turn inward to examine those internal filters, our mental models—the deeply held beliefs that too often divide us and limit our own capacity for change.
Today, we are asking: What happens when those filters limit us? What happens when the stories we tell ourselves keep us from seeing our own power, or the humanity of the person standing right next to us?
This is Episode 3: The Stories We Tell Ourselves.
2:20-2:33 – Media Clips
2:33-2:57 - Luke Waldo – But it’s also a deeply personal one. Before we can change the systems that serve families, we often have to rewrite the internal scripts that tell us we can’t.
2:57-3:46 – Annessa Hartman – “I had no dreams of becoming a politician by any means, and I ran really with the like conviction that every single person deserved to be at all levels of government, that if certain people can run for higher office, Why can't someone who went to culinary school, who was raised by a single mom who we, you know, had to choose between whether or not she was going to pay a bill versus putting food on the table? Like, why can't people with lived experience be in these positions?”
3:46-5:07 – Luke Waldo - That is the internal narrative work. It is a story we now tell ourselves because it's the dominant narrative that's been told to us over the years.
[Media Clips]
How high we reach is often determined by the limits of our imagination. Our imagination is built on the stories that we’ve been told and those that have been withheld or dismissed as unattainable and inaccessible.
It’s why Annessa had to dismantle a story that said "people like me don't belong in power".
5:07-5:55 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “One of the things that you learn when you're a child and you're exposed to huge amounts of trauma and it persists is is that if you raise your voice, it doesn't do anything. And in my adult life, it has been very important for me to rewrite that narrative, to say, you know what? If I speak up, it does make a difference. We can change outcomes for people.”
5:55-7:07 – Luke Waldo – If we believe the story that our voice doesn't matter, we create and maintain systems that are unresponsive and unaccountable to us, but if we rewrite that script, we create openings for change.
In our first episode, Jess Moyer from FrameWorks warned us about the "individualism" mindset, the idea that people end up where they are solely because of their own choices. When we tell ourselves that story about a parent involved in the child welfare system, or a person returning from incarceration, we distance ourselves. We create an "Other."
7:08-7:48 – Desmond Meade – “The United States, before they bombed Hiroshima Nagasaki, they engaged in this narrative campaign that desensitized people as to the humanities of Japanese and actually dehumanized them, right? And and and and in doing so, when they did drop the bomb and killed all these kids and women, they were celebrating in the streets. Think about it, celebrating in the streets. That's the power of the narrative. A narrative actually controls how we react to atrocities.”
[Media Clip]
7:48-8:10– Luke Waldo – Narrative controls how we react to atrocities. It controls whether we celebrate suffering or mourn it.
Desmond’s antidote to this dehumanization isn’t a policy paper. It’s a memory. A story from his childhood that challenges harmful narratives that keep us apart. He calls it the "poison pill" to polarization.
8:10-9:45 – Desmond Meade – “And that poison pill, I believe, is this connectivity that we have.”
The story about Amy.
9:45-10:15 – Luke Waldo – If only there were a way to challenge the narrative of division, a cure-all, a simple way to reframe the “Other” into someone familiar. How might you do that? And if you and your organization have been nominated for a Nobel Peace prize for changing hearts and minds of millions of people, you likely had to wrestle with that very question.
10:15-10:53 – Desmond Meade – “Whenever I approach somebody, right? First question I ask Do you know anyone who you love who's ever made a mistake? You know what I say? I say anybody who you love or care about who's ever had a felony conviction. See the difference? You see what I just did, right? Do you know anyone who you love who's ever made a mistake? Right? See what I did there, right? Well, number one, love, right? Number two, it's somebody who you love that you're connected to. And it's not those people, right?”
10:53-11:19 – Luke Waldo – This is narrative change in action. It shifts the mindset from punishment to shared experiences to empathy.
11:19-11:52 – Annessa Hartman – “If someone could just learn to like help their neighbor instead of just immediately judgment and like learn it, like lean in with curiosity rather than immediate judgment, like what could that do for people? And I think that the same thing could be said in an agency lens, right? Like um, if someone is dealing with substance use, not your bad parent, but why? Like, and what can we do to help you instead of judging you in that way?”
11:52-12:28 – Luke Waldo – But what happens when these old stories, stories of judgment, of separation, of hierarchy, get told over and over again that they feel stuck as if poured in concrete? They become the foundations of our systems.
12:28-13:01 - Tshaka Barrows – “…I often ask people to think about, you know, our railroad tracks and the system that moves all of the cargo across this country. People every day are on these railroad tracks. The width of them. Was it based on study? Is it the most advanced width, you know, that we could come up with? Or is it based on the horse and buggy that they used to build that first set of tracks? And are we still limited by that? Absolutely. That's infrastructure. You know, that's what we're trying to think about in terms of human services and this opportunity to reimagine.”
13:01-13:39 – Samantha Mellerson – “I think it's really important to acknowledge when these systems and institutions were created, they were created for certain folks in mind. We had a lot of people in the population that were not considered human at that time, right? … When you look at the even the history, the root of these foundations, these institutions are rooted in systemic inequities, right? Very deliberate in a time of racial hierarchy.”
13:39-14:16 – Luke Waldo – If the tracks were built on a narrative of exclusion, we cannot simply "reform" our way to justice. We have to tell a new story about what the tracks are for, what they are capable of and what they are not.
14:16-15:15 – Dr. Bruce Perry – “There are systems, there are mechanisms that want to put you back in equilibrium. So the status quo of a group is very hard to change, and there are lots of mechanisms that keep, maintain the status quo. And usually your view of the world is something that centers you, that involves the system accumulating resources and power and taking it up to you. And so it's the very rare person who is open-minded enough to actually see that I, we need to change something that will take power away from me.”
15:15-15:26 – Luke Waldo – The story of the system, then, is often the story of self-preservation. To change it requires what Tshaka Barrows calls "reimagining." It requires us to believe that a different way is possible.
15:26-15:53 – Tshaka Barrows – “We need examples of humans figuring it out. What does that look like? Why is our creative juices not pouring in that direction?”
15:53-16:23 – Luke Waldo – We need to shine the light on examples of humans figuring it out. We need new stories. Success stories. Stories of connection, shared aspirations, communal resilience, and thriving communities.
16:23-16:53 – Jess Moyer – “We need to kind of take that lens to every decision that we make together. How will this impact children? And kind of think through that question. Because all the decisions we make about society have some impact on children in some way, and in the same way they impact all of us. They're social issues and that they touch all of our lives. So expanding that concept of care to something that's collective, inclusive, and expansive, I think is something that everybody can do.”
16:53-17:14 – Luke Waldo – When we expand the story of care, we change the logic of systems. We move from a story of fixing broken people to a story of building healing environments.
17:14-17:51 – Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – But one of the things that a panelist mentioned is that the opposite of vision is fear, right? And so I can understand if there's fear there, right? But then I think that there's this incredible opportunity for us to come together, even if there is fear and concerns around solutions, so we don't let that fear get in the way of families getting the access to the services that they need.
17:51-18:06 – Luke Waldo – The opposite of vision is fear.
Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, who has spent her career showing us the link between trauma and health, is now writing a new story about what that trauma actually means. It’s not just harm. It’s power.
18:06-18:47 - Dr. Nadine Burke Harris – “I'm close to the beginning of writing my second book now, and it's called Pain to Power. And it's like our source of our pain is also the source of our superpowers. The fact that ACEs impact all these different sectors is huge. It's a huge toll on our society. ... But it's also the source of our superpower because it means that everyone's got a stake in this. So when we come together and we do it strategically and we're organized and we each play our different part, we can make transformative change.”
18:47-21:47– Luke Waldo – “The stories we tell ourselves can either keep us trapped in fear, fear of the other, fear of losing power, fear that we don't matter, or they can give us the vision to build something new, to play our part in making transformative change.
I would like to again thank Prevent Child Abuse America for their partnership and the opportunity to co-host their podcast, The Shift: Voices of Prevention, at their 2025 national conference. If you’d like to hear the full episodes where the many voices and clips that you heard today came from, find The Shift wherever you listen to this podcast or you can find the links above.
Today, we turned inward to examine the stories we tell ourselves and how these personal stories scale up to become the very foundations of our systems - systems built like old railroad tracks that were designed for a different time, for some, not all.
But here's the powerful part: we learned that we are the authors of these narratives. Every time we choose curiosity over judgment, every time we see a parent's struggle in context rather than as their character, and every time we speak up when the system tries to silence us, we are editing the script.
But there's another crucial part of this story: how dominant narratives don't just stay in our heads—they become concrete. They transform into policies. They solidify into practices. They get reinforced until they become the systems that govern our lives.
In our next episode, we're going to meet Prudence Beidler Carr, Director of the American Bar Association’s Center on Children and the Law, who will walk us through a pivotal moment in history when a dominant narrative about "unfit parents" became the foundation for the child welfare system as we know it today. We'll explore how the stories we tell about poverty and parenting got confused, then codified into law, and what that means for families still caught in that system. Because if we want to reimagine harmful systems, we first have to understand how narratives built them in the first place.
Closing Credits
Join the conversation and connect with us!
Luke Waldo 00:14
Welcome to season 4 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, where we explore how stories and narratives shape what we believe and how we act, and how we might tell different stories that change the narrative so that all children and families can thrive.
Hey everyone, this is Luke Waldo, your host for this podcast series and the Director of Program Design and Community Engagement for the Institute for Child and Family Well-being, our partnership between Children’s Wisconsin and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Helen Bader School of Social Welfare.
So far this season, we’ve tracked the big picture, the public narratives that shape our culture. We’ve examined the harmful patterns where radical individualism intersects with caregiving that turns collective crises into personal failures and therefore shrink our sense of shared responsibility.
But today, we’re going inward.
Because these dominant narratives don’t just exist out there in policy or the media. They live inside us. They are the scripts we recite when we look in the mirror, when we look at our neighbors, and when we decide who belongs and who doesn’t.
Jess Moyer and the FrameWorks Institute remind us that these are internalized, creating mindsets that act as filters. Today, we turn inward to examine those internal filters, our mental models—the deeply held beliefs that too often divide us and limit our own capacity for change.
Today, we are asking: What happens when those filters limit us? What happens when the stories we tell ourselves keep us from seeing our own power, or the humanity of the person standing right next to us?
This is Episode 3: The Stories We Tell Ourselves.
We often think of "narrative change" as a big political act or communications campaign like a Public Service Announcement.
Speaker 1 02:20
It's morning again in America. This is drugs. This is your brain on drugs. Okay, now cue the music and that star thing,
Luke Waldo 02:33
But it’s also a deeply personal one. Before we can change the systems that serve families, we often have to rewrite the internal scripts that tell us we can’t.
I want to bring back Oregon State Representative Annessa Hartman. Before she was a legislator passing bills to support families, she was a mother, a community member, and someone who didn’t see herself as a protagonist in the political story.
Annessa Hartman 02:57
I had no dreams of becoming a politician by any means, and I ran really with the like conviction that every single person deserved to be at all levels of government, that if certain people can run for higher office, Why can't someone who went to culinary school, who was raised by a single mom who we, you know, had to choose between whether or not she was going to pay a bill versus putting food on the table? Like, why can't people with lived experience be in these positions?
That was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life. Then I think the one part that I had forgotten to share was that I absolutely was someone who did not think their vote mattered, and so it was fascinating to me, and I really took that to like to heart, that I wanted to convince the Anessa like why they should get involved. And that was way more challenging.
Luke Waldo 03:46
I wanted to convince the Anessa why they should get involved. That is the internal narrative work. It is a story we now tell ourselves because it's the dominant narrative that's been told to us over the years.
Media Clips 03:59
This election is going to be one of the closest…
Luke Waldo
In our news stories and social media feeds.
Media Clips
That means you Gary,
Luke Waldo
In our books…
Media Clips
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Doug.
President in particular, is very much a figurehead. He is apparently chosen by the government.
Luke Waldo
…in movies…
Media Clips
and I suppose your little Indian friend told you this, lies, murderous thieves. There's no room for their kind in civilized society, how high we reach is often determined by the limits of our imagination.
Luke Waldo 04:26
How high we reach is often determined by the limits of our imagination. Our imagination is built on the stories that we’ve been told and those that have been withheld or dismissed as unattainable and inaccessible.
It’s why Annessa had to dismantle a story that said "people like me don't belong in power".
[Luke and Annessa say that together]
And she’s not alone. Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, a pioneer in the movement to identify and reduce adverse childhood experiences, also had to confront an internal script—one that many children who experience adversity learn very early on.
Dr. Nadine Burke Harris 05:07
One of the things that you learn when you're a child and you're exposed to huge amounts of trauma and it persists is is that if you raise your voice, it doesn't do anything. That you can see something that is overtly wrong that is happening, and if you speak up, it doesn't make a difference. And in my adult life, it has been very important for me to rewrite that narrative, to say, you know what? If I speak up, it does make a difference. We can change outcomes for people.
Luke Waldo 05:55
If we believe the story that our voice doesn't matter, we create and maintain systems that are unresponsive and unaccountable to us, but if we rewrite that script, we create openings for change.
But the stories we tell ourselves aren't just about us. They are about them, the people we serve, the people we disagree with, the people we fear.
In our first episode, Jess Moyer from FrameWorks warned us about the "individualism" mindset, the idea that people end up where they are solely because of their own choices. When we tell ourselves that story about a parent involved in the child welfare system, or a person returning from incarceration, we distance ourselves. We create an "Other."
Desmond Meade, a MacArthur Fellow award-winning voting rights activist, Time magazine 100 most influential people in the world, and executive director of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, reminds us that narratives don't just hurt feelings. They can justify harm. He shared a chilling example of how the stories we tell ourselves about "the enemy" can desensitize us to humanity itself.
Desmond Meade 07:08
The United States, before they bombed Hiroshima Nagasaki, they engaged in this narrative campaign that desensitized people as to the humanities of Japanese and actually dehumanized them, right? And and and and in doing so, when they did drop the bomb and killed all these kids and women, they were celebrating in the streets. Think about it, celebrating in the streets. .
Media Clip 07:29
Latest reports from the Japanese say that 126,000 died as the result of the damage done by the single bomb that blasted the city. It was this terrific force that finally signed her death warrant.
Desmond Meade 07:41
That's the power of the narrative. A narrative actually controls how we react to atrocities.
Luke Waldo 07:48
Narrative controls how we react to atrocities. It controls whether we celebrate suffering or mourn it.
Desmond’s antidote to this dehumanization isn’t a policy paper. It’s a memory. A story from his childhood that challenges harmful narratives that keep us apart. He calls it the "poison pill" to polarization.
Desmond Meade 08:10
I think we have the poison pill, but no one asks about the poison pill. … And that poison pill, I believe, is this connectivity that we have.
I remember Amy, right? Uh little white girl that I grew up in the islands with, right? And Amy and I were like inseparable, right? And I had no clue, like she was white and I'm black, and we're not supposed to, I had no clue whatsoever.
And I talk about how we we cling to each other out of pure desperation when our parents were going separate ways. And she was going back to the mainland. I was still in the Virgin Islands, and we didn't want to be separated. And the parents pried us apart.
And this thing about that and and even experiences I've had living in in the Midwest, right, that that helped me see that the world is much more complex than what people may try to make it, right? And that things that they say are reality is not necessarily reality, that that we we spend so much time trying to define our enemies that we lose sight of who are friends…
Luke Waldo 09:45
We spend so much time trying to define our enemies that we lose sight of who our friends are.It bears repeating.
If only there were a way to challenge the narrative of division, a cure-all, a simple way to reframe the “Other” into someone familiar. How might you do that? And if you and your organization has been nominated for a Nobel Peace prize for changing hearts and minds of millions of people, you likely had to wrestle with that very question.
Desmond Meade 10:15
Ready? Whenever I approach somebody, right? First question I ask Do you know anyone who you love who's ever made a mistake? I don't care what part of the state I'm in.
You know what I say? I say anybody who you love or care about who's ever had a felony conviction. See the difference? You see what I just did, right? Do you know anyone who you love who's ever made a mistake? Right? See what I did there, right? Well, number one, love, right? Number two, it's somebody who you love that you're connected to. And it's not those people, right?”
Luke Waldo 10:53
This is narrative change in action. It shifts the mindset from punishment to shared experiences to empathy. It moves us from preconceived notions to present tense, from judgment to curiosity, and as representative Hartman reminds us, when we replace judgment with curiosity, we stop seeing bad parents and start seeing neighbors who are overloaded with stress, who need our support.
Annessa Hartman 11:19
If someone could just learn to like help their neighbor instead of just immediately judgment and like learn it, like lean in with curiosity rather than immediate judgment, like what could that do for people? And I think that the same thing could be said in an agency lens, right? Like um, if someone is dealing with substance use, not your bad parent, but why? Like, and what can we do to help you instead of judging you in that way?
Luke Waldo 11:52
But what happens when these old stories, stories of judgment, of separation, of hierarchy, get told over and over again that they feel stuck as if poured in concrete? They become the foundations of our systems.
Tshaka Barrows and Samantha Mellerson, Co-executive directors from the Haywood Burns Institute liken the history of our institutions to a set of railroad tracks. In our march toward innovation, we keep trying to make the train go faster, but we’re running on tracks built for a different time, designed by different narratives that were told by different storytellers.
Tshaka Barrows 12:28
I often ask people to think about, you know, our railroad tracks and the system that moves all of the cargo across this country. People every day are on these railroad tracks. The width of them. Was it based on study? Is it the most advanced width, you know, that we could come up with? Or is it based on the horse and buggy that they used to build that first set of tracks? And are we still limited by that? Absolutely. That's infrastructure. You know, that's what we're trying to think about in terms of human services and this opportunity to reimagine.
Samantha Mellerson 13:01
I think it's really important to acknowledge when these systems and institutions were created, they were created for certain folks in mind. We had a lot of people in the population that were not considered human at that time, right? … When you look at the even the history, the root of these foundations, these institutions are rooted in systemic inequities, right? Very deliberate in a time of racial hierarchy.
Luke Waldo 13:39
If the tracks were built on a narrative of exclusion, we cannot simply "reform" our way to justice. We have to tell a new story about what the tracks are for, what they are capable of and what they are not.
As Dr. Bruce Perry warns us, systems have a way of protecting their old stories. They have a biological drive to stay in equilibrium, even if that equilibrium is harmful. He explains that this resistance to change isn't a character flaw. It's biological. Our brains, and by extension our systems, are wired to resist new stories because the old ones feel safer.
Dr. Bruce Perry 14:16
Systems are bigger than that, and they have mechanisms to inhibit change, and again, this is part of the natural reality of any physiological system in equilibrium. There are systems, there are mechanisms that want to put you back in equilibrium.
So the status quo of a group is very hard to change, and there are lots of mechanisms that keep, maintain the status quo. And usually your view of the world is something that centers you, that involves the system accumulating resources and power and taking it up to you. And so it's the very rare person who is open-minded enough to actually see that I, we need to change something that will take power away from me.
Luke Waldo 15:15
The story of the system, then, is often the story of self-preservation. To change it requires what Tshaka Barrows calls "reimagining." It requires us to believe that a different way is possible.
Tshaka Barrows 15:26
Last shout out is if you can find videos or movies of humans winning, please send them our way. Um, we think there's a real shortage of examples of us figuring ourselves out. And there's way too many examples of us failing. We need examples of humans figuring it out. What does that look like? Why is our creative juices not pouring in that direction?
Luke Waldo 15:53
We need to shine the light on examples of humans figuring it out. We need new stories. Success stories. Stories of connection, shared aspirations, communal resilience, and thriving communities.
And this brings us back to FrameWorks Institute. Jess Moyer told us that narratives are made up of patterns of stories. To change the narrative, we have to start populating our culture with new stories—stories where care is collective, where asking for help is a strength, and where we define "us" as everyone.
Jessica Moyer 16:23
We need to kind of take that lens to every decision that we make together. How will this impact children? And kind of think through that question. Because all the decisions we make about society have some impact on children in some way, and in the same way they impact all of us. They're social issues and that they touch all of our lives. So expanding that concept of care to something that's collective, inclusive, and expansive, I think is something that everybody can do.
Luke Waldo 16:53
When we expand the story of care, we change the logic of systems. We move from a story of fixing broken people to a story of building healing environments. Dr. Burke Harris reminded us that the fear of rewriting the story, the fear of the unknown, is the biggest barrier, but we have a choice.
Dr. Nadine Burke Harris 17:14
But one of the things that a panelist mentioned is that the opposite of vision is fear, right? And so I can understand if there's fear there, right? But then I think that there's this incredible opportunity for us to come together, even if there is fear and concerns around solutions, so we don't let that fear get in the way of families getting the access to the services that they need.
Luke Waldo 17:51
The opposite of vision is fear.
Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, who has spent her career showing us the link between trauma and health, is now writing a new story about what that trauma actually means. It’s not just harm. It’s power.
Dr. Nadine Burke Harris 18:06
I'm close to the beginning of writing my second book now, and it's called Pain to Power. And it's like our source of our pain is also the source of our superpowers. The fact that ACEs impact all these different sectors is huge. It's a huge toll on our society. ... But it's also the source of our superpower because it means that everyone's got a stake in this. So when we come together and we do it strategically and we're organized and we each play our different part, we can make transformative change.
Luke Waldo 18:47
The stories we tell ourselves can either keep us trapped in fear, fear of the other, fear of losing power, fear that we don't matter, or they can give us the vision to build something new, to play our part in making transformative change.
I would like to again thank Prevent Child Abuse America for their partnership and the opportunity to co-host their podcast, The Shift, at their 2025 national conference. If you’d like to hear the full episodes where the many voices and clips that you heard today came from, find The Shift wherever you listen to this podcast or you can find the links in the show notes.
Today, we turned inward to examine the stories we tell ourselves and how these personal stories scale up to become the very foundations of our systems - systems built like old railroad tracks that were designed for a different time, for some, not all.
But here's the powerful part: we learned that we are the authors of these narratives. Every time we choose curiosity over judgment, every time we see a parent's struggle in context rather than as their character, and every time we speak up when the system tries to silence us, we are editing the script.
But there's another crucial part of this story: how dominant narratives don't just stay in our heads—they become concrete. They transform into policies. They solidify into practices. They get reinforced until they become the systems that govern our lives.
In our next episode, we're going to meet Prudence Beidler Carr, Director of the American Bar Association’s Center on Children and the Law, who will walk us through a pivotal moment in history when a dominant narrative about "unfit parents" became the foundation for the child welfare system as we know it today. We'll explore how the stories we tell about poverty and parenting got confused, then codified into law, and what that means for families still caught in that system. Because if we want to reimagine harmful systems, we first have to understand how narratives built them in the first place.
You've been listening to Overloaded: Understanding Neglect.
Until the next time, keep asking: What stories shape how we see the world, and how can we tell them differently?
Closing Credits
If you enjoyed today’s episode, please share with friends, family and colleagues. Also, leave us a rating or comment so that we can see your reaction and reach more people.
This podcast would not have been possible without the support and talents of Nathan Fink, who is responsible for our technical production. I can't express my gratitude enough to Nathan. I'm also grateful to my team at the Institute for Child and Family Well-being at Children’s Wisconsin, who drive the Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and contributed to the ideas behind this podcast.
Finally, I would like to thank all of our speakers that you have heard today and throughout the podcast for their partnership, their willingness to share their stories and expertise with me and all of you, and their commitment to improving the lives of children and families.
I'm Luke Waldo, your Host and Executive Editor. Thanks again for listening and see you next time.