Last episode, we learned from national leaders Anthony Barrows, Sixto Cancel, and Bryn Fortune about the power of lived experience through Intersectional Professionals, Ambassadors, and Parent Leaders. Today, we will explore the impacts of a Parent Partner here in Wisconsin. The history of peer support goes back long before we had formal systems like child protection or mental health. People in ancient societies overcame hardship like religious persecution or famine by coming together through shared experience and creating shared solutions. However, the rise of organized peer support comes in response to many systemic abuses and failures in the 19th and 20th centuries. Inhumane conditions and treatment of people living in asylums with mental health disorders led to groups like the Quakers and later people like Judi Chamberlin to create survivors’ movements that would transform how people with lived experience could organize their voices and advocacy to improve the systems that harmed and failed them. People struggling with addiction felt judged and stigmatized by the systems that were supposed to help them, so Alcoholics Anonymous was created with peer-to-peer support at its core to validate and empathize with each person’s experience. It wasn’t until fairly recently that these peer support and mentor models were translated to child welfare. So I wanted to learn more about the model that is being implemented in Wisconsin. Parents Supporting Parents is a peer support program designed in Iowa for parents involved in the Child Protection System that is now implemented here in a handful of counties across Wisconsin. Samantha Copus is a mother to two children and identifies as a person in long term recovery. Samantha has a variety of lived experiences ranging from mental health, substance use disorders, domestic violence and being a mother who had a child in the child welfare system, all which qualify her now to serve as a parent partner in Jefferson County as part of the Parents Supporting Parents program.
Today’s episode included the following speakers (in the order they appear):
Host: Luke Waldo
Experts:
:04–:33 – Samantha Copus – “That's the main piece. That's the secret sauce of peer support. Is connection, is that you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up and tell you, like, Oh, that's okay. How do we move forward? How do you want to move forward? Because nothing you've done changes what I think you're worth, and I'm still going to show up and support you. And I think that's when you start breaking down those barriers and giving these parents, you know, something they couldn't get anywhere else.”
:41-3:29 – Luke – Opening, Samantha’s Bio, and Opening
The history of peer support goes back long before we had formal systems like child protection or mental health.
It wasn’t until fairly recently that these peer support and mentor models were translated to child welfare. So I wanted to learn more about the model that is being implemented in Wisconsin.
Parents Supporting Parents is a peer support program designed in Iowa for parents involved in the Child Protection System that is now implemented here in a handful of counties across Wisconsin.
Samantha Copus is a mother to two children and identifies as a person in long term recovery. Samantha has a variety of lived experiences ranging from mental health, substance use disorders, domestic violence and being a mother who had a child in the child welfare system, all which qualify her now to serve as a parent partner in Jefferson County as part of the Parents Supporting Parents program.
3:29-3:37 – Samantha – Thank you.
3:38-4:01 - Luke – Why are peer support programs such as Parents Supporting Parents needed today?
4:02-5:02 – Samantha – What we were doing without it wasn’t working. Families weren’t feeling heard, weren’t feeling connected.
“You wouldn’t hire a tour guide that’s never been to that destination.”
5:03-6:00 – Luke – I’d like to dive deeper into the ‘why’ behind one of today’s focus areas: social connectedness. Why do you think peer support—and your role as a parent partner in the Parents Supporting Parents program—is so critical to improving social connectedness for the caregivers and parents you serve?"
6:01-9:07 – Samantha – Parenting alone can be isolating. Peer support allows for non-judgmental showing up and walking the journey with the parent.
“It’s the child welfare system, not the parent welfare system. Who’s going to be looking after these parents who are looking out for their children?”
Social connection is the secret sauce that breaks down barriers and allows the parent to share their darkest moments and still know that that person will keep showing up.
9:08-10:04 – Luke – This perspective helps explain why there is growing momentum behind the incorporation of lived experience into our systems and decision-making. It’s difficult to teach the emotional experience of being on the other side of child welfare.
It is important to take that first step of acknowledging that lived experience should be a part of our systems. It’s another to scale it so that it can have a greater impact.
So what does Parenting Supporting Parents do? And what does it hope to accomplish or change in the child welfare system and for parents and caregivers?
10:05-13:20 – Samantha – Parents Supporting Parents (PSP) is an evidence-based program out of Iowa that is voluntary for parents involved in the child welfare system. The program is growing across the state – Rock, Milwaukee, Eau Claire, Jefferson.
We are also looking at it moving further upstream so that we can work with families to prevent child welfare involvement. Rock County hired two parents who previously worked with a PSP partner.
13:21-14:21 - Luke – It can be difficult to scale promising models, so it is promising to hear that Parents Supporting Parents is scaling across the state and within counties. What are some of the key components of your role? How do they impact the parents that you serve?
14:22-19:09 - Samantha – Parent Partners support parents at court, by transporting them to services, processing through what they need during those car rides or on the phone, referring to services. Sharing space. Providing another voice of lived experience during meetings with professionals.
Participate in trainings on foster care placements to provide additional perspective. Peer support in a system shows that we are seeking alignment to find solutions for families.
“I think having peer support embedded in your system is a system that is ready to hold itself accountable.”
19:10-20:54 – Luke – The magic happening during those drives - to appointments or court—when the most honest conversations often take place. It’s something that’s hard to evaluate or formalize or even train staff on in a program, but as you said, these moments are critical for connection and building trust, particularly for people who’ve been isolated by challenges like domestic violence or substance use.
Given how demanding this work can be—requiring, for example, you to revisit some of your darkest moments—how important is it for you to have other parent partners to confide in or lean on when you’re feeling overloaded?"
20:55-24:35 - Samantha – They are the supports I didn’t know that I needed. Parent Partners work closely together.
24:36-25:03 - Luke – Where do you see the greatest impact in your 18 months, almost two years in this role?
25:04-30:27 – Samantha – At the macro-level, it’s been great seeing more and more people interested in this work. At the micro-level, the change that can happen when there’s one healthy, supportive person in someone’s life. “I have had a client tell me that they told me something that they’ve never told anyone before.”
Transformation can happen when people feel connected and believed in. Child welfare workers value her perspective and support of the parent.
“The single most frustrating thing is screaming and feeling like no one can hear you.”
“Having peer support embedded can keep people compassionate instead of complacent.”
30:28-33:09 - Luke – Social isolation is a growing crisis. The U.S. Surgeon General’s 2023 report on social isolation and loneliness highlighted this epidemic, and more recently, a report on parents’ mental health revealed that nearly half of all parents feel overwhelmed by stress most days. It’s sobering but underscores the importance of building social connectedness.
With that in mind, I’d love for you to reflect on how your role as a parent partner aligns with our four critical pathways, which are:
Feel free to take this in any direction that you’d like.
33:10-38:02 - Samantha – PSP is evidence-based which has shown to lower reentry rates for those that have had a Parent Partner. Parent Partners assist a lot with Economic Stability by creating bridges to housing and food stability, access to benefits and job opportunities. Lived Experience partners stand between theory and reality.
$2000 prescription metaphor. In theory it works, in practice the patient can’t afford it.
Mandated reporting is mandated supporting in the PSP world.
38:03-39:42 - Luke - How might communities implement a role like parent partners or a program like Parents Supporting Parents?
For those listening who are inspired by this model, what do you believe are the critical conditions for implementing and scaling it?
Beyond that, what other conditions, practices, or opportunities do you think are essential to successfully implement and scale this model? And how do we ensure there are enough parent partners and enough support for you to meet the demand within each community?"
39:43-43:20 - Samantha – Contact Department of Children and Families. This work requires authenticity. Look around your community as there are likely lived experience helpers already doing the work. Make it an equitable relationship with your peers.
43:21-44:32 - Luke – This conversation has been both inspirational and instructive. It challenges our mental models and hopefully moves us to consider the importance of equity and the role that lived experience brings to it. Gratitude.
44:33-44:52 - Samantha – Thank you!
44:53-45:07 – Luke – Thank you, Samantha!
45:12-46:53 - Luke – 3 Key Takeaways
47:05-49:00 – Luke – Closing Credits
Join the conversation and connect with us!
Samantha Copus 00:04
That's the main piece. That's the secret sauce of peer support. Is connection, is that you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up and tell you, like, Oh, that's okay. How do we move forward? How do you want to move forward? Because nothing you've done changes what I think you're worth, and I'm still going to show up and support you. And I think that's when you start breaking down those barriers and giving these parents, you know, something they couldn't get anywhere else.
Luke Waldo 00:41
Welcome to season 3 of Overloaded: Understanding Neglect, where we explore how we might change the conditions that overload families with stress, so that families can thrive and children grow up with a strong foundation built on positive childhood experiences.
Hey everyone, this is Luke Waldo, your host for this podcast series and the Director of Program Design and Community Engagement for the Institute for Child and Family Well-being, our partnership between Children’s Wisconsin and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Helen Bader School of Social Welfare.
Last week, we learned from national leaders Anthony Barrows, Sixto Cancel, and Bryn Fortune about the power of lived experience through Intersectional Professionals, Ambassadors, and Parent Leaders. Today, we will explore the impacts of a Parent Partner here in Wisconsin.
The history of peer support goes back long before we had formal systems like child protection or mental health. People in ancient societies overcame hardship like religious persecution or famine by coming together through shared experience and creating shared solutions. However, the rise of organized peer support comes in response to many systemic abuses and failures in the 19th and 20th centuries. Inhumane conditions and treatment of people living in asylums with mental health disorders led to groups like the Quakers and later people like Judi Chamberlin to create survivors’ movements that would transform how people with lived experience could organize their voices and advocacy to improve the systems that harmed and failed them.
People struggling with addiction felt judged and stigmatized by the systems that were supposed to help them, so Alcoholics Anonymous was created with peer-to-peer support at its core to validate and empathize with each person’s experience.
It wasn’t until fairly recently that these peer support and mentor models were translated to child welfare. So I wanted to learn more about the model that is being implemented in Wisconsin.
Parents Supporting Parents is a peer support program designed in Iowa for parents involved in the Child Protection System that is now implemented here in a handful of counties across Wisconsin.
Samantha Copus is a mother to two children and identifies as a person in long term recovery. Samantha has a variety of lived experiences ranging from mental health, substance use disorders, domestic violence and being a mother who had a child in the child welfare system, all which qualify her now to serve as a parent partner in Jefferson County as part of the Parents Supporting Parents program.
Welcome Samantha. Thank you for joining us today and for the work that you do in supporting overloaded parents and caregivers.
Samantha Copus 03:29
Hi, Luke. Thanks so much for having me. This is an exciting opportunity to highlight a program I'm really passionate about. So thank you.
Luke Waldo 03:38
Thanks again for joining us. I'm super excited about our conversation. It's been a real pleasure getting to know you over the last few months, as you've become more and more involved in our strong families, thriving children, Connected Communities initiative. I want to start today with the why behind the work that you're doing and the program that you're involved with. So why are peer support programs such as parents supporting parents needed today?
Samantha Copus 04:02
I really love that question, and I love hearing it being asked more and more in different spaces, because that means we're making that impact, and people are getting curious. And so I have two answers, and neither of them do I want to sound snarky, but I guess my first answer that comes to mind is because what we were doing without it wasn't working. Families weren't feeling heard, they weren't feeling connected, and they weren't feeling like they were able to advocate for themselves are safe to do so, and one of the metaphors I use in peer support is you wouldn't hire a tour guide that's never been to that destination. And that's not to take away from the expertise that you know ‘ staff have. But it's not the same as someone who's been there and done that.
Luke Waldo 05:03
Samantha, it instantly transported me to when I studied Latin American history and civilization in college, and how I felt like an expert when I graduated with my degree. But it wasn't until I lived in Bolivia and first walked the ruins of the Inca that I realized that important parts of their story had been missing that I could only get from being there and from living there. So similarly, professionals in child welfare bring valuable training, knowledge and experience, but they often haven't walked in the shoes of those they serve, and that ultimately can lead to missing the many nuanced ways that are really needed to truly connect with or understand the families they are serving. So I'd like to dive deeper into the why behind one of today's focus areas, which is social connectedness. Why do you think peer support and your role as a parent partner in the Parent Supporting Parents program is so critical to improving social connectedness for the caregivers and parents who serve?
Samantha Copus 06:01
I think specifically, the connection is the is the missing piece, right? I think parenting in general can be so isolating. You become someone different, your life circumstances change, and there's, you know, there's more conversation around that, like lately about parenting and trying to find your village or create your village, and that's for everybody in today's society. But when you think of the parents that are impacted by these systems, and once they're in this system, I mean, it's the child welfare system, right? It's not the parent welfare system, who's looking out for these parents that are going to be looking out for these children? And and I think, you know, again, it's not to take away from the good intentions of the professionals of the system, but it, it is hard.
It's hard to have a singleness of purpose and what peer support does, and specifically in the realm of connection, is like, I get to show up as an unconditional support to a parent with zero judgment or expectation of where they what they do and how we get there. I'm just showing up to be like, I'm going to support you today. What does that look like for you, what? What is it that you need? And, and, of course, I don't think it's not magic, right? I don't show up, and I'm like, I've done this, and you're gonna like me a lot. It takes, it takes a little bit of showing up. It takes a little bit of warming up, like, you know, and their situation is different than the one that I lived. I can have lived experience, but that's my own. So getting to just kind of walk that journey.
And another point I think of when I was thinking of this topic is we all know about, you know, child welfare, everyone and everyone's probably connected to somebody in their life. If you think back to your childhood like you knew a kid that grew up at their grandparents house, but we didn't talk about it. You just kind of knew, but you didn't like talk about it. There wasn't room for people to be having this discussion about the circumstances that brought them there. And you certainly didn't hear from the parents of that situation. You heard from the caregiver that stepped in and you heard from the children, but if there was any conversations being had, so I think this just really allows people to feel it's a very it's a very exclusive club, and so it it's that's the main piece.
That's the secret sauce of peer support, is connection is that you can show me the part of you that you think is the worst, and I'm still going to show up and tell you, like, Oh, that's okay. And like, how do we move forward? How do you want to move forward? Because nothing you've done changes what I think you're worth. And I'm still going to show up and support you. And I think that's when you start breaking down those barriers and giving these parents, you know, something they couldn't get anywhere else.
Luke Waldo 09:08
Thank you, Samantha, for sharing that your point is is such a strong reminder of why there's growing momentum to integrate the voices of those with lived experience into our workforce, into our systems and into our decision-making processes. Lived experience brings a level of empathy and understanding that that really can't be taught, especially at the emotional level, about what it's like to be on the other side of a system like like child welfare.
So I'd like to shift now into the nuts and bolts of your role and the program behind it, acknowledging the value of lived experience is an important first step, as you mentioned, but the next step is, is implementation. So how? How do we bring these models to life and and what they hope to accomplish? So could you start by explaining what the Parents Supporting Parents program is, and after that. Share what you see it trying to change or accomplish for families involved with the child welfare system.
Samantha Copus 10:05
Of course, yes. So Parents Supporting Parents is a peer support model that was taken from Iowa. It's evidence based. And again, it is a parent like myself who has lived experience in the child welfare system working with a parent, or parents who are currently navigating it with a child out of home.
The this is a two-part question, so I'll stay macro for this, because we'll get to the micro or my own personal experiences a little later. But you know, what does Parents Supporting Parents hope to accomplish? We hope to give parents agency in the single most important parts of their lives, and we hope to grow. We hope that every parent who's intersecting with child welfare is going to be able to have access to someone. I also like to note that this program is completely voluntary, no one. We're not going to force a parent partner on you, which is important to remember. I think it's easy on this side of things for me to be like, Oh, I would have loved a Parent Partner, but then also remembering that when I was in the thick of it, that probably would have sounded really scary, or like just another person, like, I wouldn't have been able to, you know, take in. I wouldn't have understood the value, maybe right away.
So still leaving all this space and we are, I think there's two really exciting points I want to make. We are growing. There's another county, and we call them zones. So right now there's Rock County, Jefferson County, Eau Claire, Milwaukee, and then Jackson is just starting, and within the time that I've been here, which will be two years in April, so maybe at that one and a half years, we have already been able to start looking at what it would be like to be a more preventative service. So we'll be working with families while they still have their children in home. So those are under safety plans. And again, this is completely voluntary, but really kind of able to show up before the worst part happens, and not meet someone at the absolute worst moment of their life.
And then the other really great the coolest thing I think I've seen about this program is that, because it's been up and running now for almost four years, Rock County hired two parents that had Parent Partners. So like that, lived experience is going to just keep growing exponentially, and it's becoming so embedded that there's going to be a different pool to pick from. And, you know, people who are going to know about it so and really understand the impact. So like those parents that are hired on now have a completely different lived experience than mine, because they got to have a Parent Partner. So it's all very cool, and hopefully that explains it.
Luke Waldo 13:21
That's that's really helpful. Thank you. One of the challenges we often see with new programs is the difficulty of scaling them effectively. So so it's really exciting to hear about the progress in your year and a half or so in this role, not only expanding in Jefferson County, but also looking to work further upstream to support families overloaded by stress before CPS intervention becomes necessary, and then also scaling across the state into four or five other counties.
What's even more inspiring is how you are creating new generations of Parent Partners so that that you can learn from each other and build a bigger network where you can support one another. So I want to ask a couple questions here. First, can you share the key components of your role, what you find yourself doing most often to support caregivers and parents and how these elements are received by the families you work with? And then second, as this program has grown, how has the community of Parent Partners supported you and influenced your work.
Samantha Copus 14:22
Yeah. So to get even you know more specific, what does it look like to support somebody through through this? Right is we're going to court dates, where process, we're getting them to services. And it's different. I like to say it's different in these different zones. We are embedded through the county, in Jefferson County, other places are like a third party kind of thing they have, and then they they contract with the county, so they it, it can look different between. The zones and each which makes sense, I think that's what I like about it, too. Is what works over here might not work over there, so there's a little bit of wiggle room with that.
But in Jefferson County, we get to transport parents, so that is largely what I find myself doing. And in that transport time we're processing. That's where that connection is happening, right? It's just in these kind of mundane day to day things. It's peer led. So like, I'm not picking them up and making them go do something they don't want to do, but I'm checking in weekly. I'm checking in and, you know, making sure that we have things on the schedule, asking if there's anything I can be helping with, with resources. I've attended recovery meetings of all kinds, with parents and just I can't express it's like trying to describe a color. It almost feels impossible, but just sharing space with someone who is kind of paralyzed in this situation, and just sharing space and being like, you know, what do you want to talk about? What don't you want to talk about? And, yeah, keeping it light some days and other days, really hitting it hard.
So it's peer led, but we get to do a variety of things. I'm showing up at at staffings, or at, they call them permanency tables, and so even cases that aren't mine, there's a parent voice in the room, so I don't have to know that parent to be advocating or making points about, you know, giving a different perspective on maybe how someone's interpreting a psych eval or and keeping it fresh for these workers. I think in my experience in my county, the workers have been very receptive to having peer supports around. In Jefferson County, we have an email for as like an agency wide thing for them to just ask a lived experience, you know, person, if, whether you're someone who's working with a live experience, person, whether that a person you're working with, maybe just wants to connect about a very specific situation and get some feedback from someone who's been there. Um, so we really try and be like an agency wide tool.
And we've also been on, I think it's important to add, we've been on trainings for foster care placements. So these foster care placements come in here our lived experience and just get that different perspective.
And another big thing I work on with the the families I work with, is that communication piece. And it's one thing to have a connection with someone who's been there, and now it's like, Okay, now we're gonna communicate in a way that connects you with everyone involved in this case and and gets you the results and kind of bring that alignment to it, like, hey, we both want the same thing. So like, let's, let's get there in a way that that feels, you know, authentic to you.
So that's kind of the the breakdown of how I would describe it. We're everywhere. We're, you know, we're just, I think we're, I think having peer support embedded in your systems is a system ready to hold itself accountable. I think we ask a lot of times that these parents just take accountability, you know, and what that comes off being is very punitive.
So I think there's like this beauty and being able to be like, Hi, I'm here because I think I can, I think I can help. And then also I'm here because in the places you can't be, I'm still there, holding people accountable. And I think that builds, and maybe that is the biggest goal of Parents Supporting Parents, or any program like this, is to change the relationships between, you know, families and Child Welfare. I think it's about really seeking alignment.
Luke Waldo 19:10
Thank you, Samantha again, for sharing your thoughts. I wanted to revisit something you mentioned earlier, about the magic happening during those drives to appointments or to court, when the most honest conversations often take place. It reminded me of when I ran our Family Support Program here at Children's in Milwaukee, many of our family support specialists noticed the same thing, especially when, when transporting teens after after visits. They talked about those kind of unscripted, pressure free moments, especially when those those kids were sitting in the back and didn't have eye contact necessarily, and they were just talking about their day or school, and that often created space for vulnerability and trust, that's where really the magic happened, where real, real progress was often made it's something that's hard to evaluate or formalize or even train staff on in a program. But as you said, Those Those moments are critical for connection and building trust, particularly for people who've been isolated by challenges like domestic violence or substance use.
So now I want to move on to that, that second question I asked earlier, you mentioned the growth of the program and the emergence of new generations of parent partners in season two of this podcast, Esme Martinez, our Parent Partner here at Children's, spoke about feeling isolated in her role because the Parent Partner community is still really small, given how demanding this work can be, requiring, for example, you to revisit some of your darkest moments. How important is it for you to have other parent partners to confide in or lean on when you're feeling overloaded?
Samantha Copus 20:55
The group of and right now, I'll be transparent, we are. It's all women, but we're not. That's another place we hope to grow is having fathers. We just haven't had as many applicants for that. But right now, like the group of parent partners that we have, they're the team I didn't know I needed. And it's, it is, it's this really like that next level of connection. I've been in recovery for 11 years. I consider myself very, you know, connected. I have people, but there is something so almost sacred about the bond we share as parents who've been through this struggle, and how exciting it is to watch it grow and to cheer each other on with different opportunities. We get to travel a little bit together. We usually end up meeting each other in the Dells for conventions and weekly we have our community of practice, and that's like, not something I miss, unless I have to to support a parent, because that's how much that group of people means to me. Like I love getting to know where they're at and and that they have a spot, especially two of our two of our zones are, you know, they are islands. We have Eau Claire, who has one Parent Partner in Milwaukee, who has one Parent Partner. So, and I'm fortunate enough, I live close enough where I can go see our Milwaukee Parent Partner sometimes, and just, and just clock that as you know, like what I'm doing for part of the day, because that's I,
I feel very supported by my supervisor in seeking that support, because she knows she can't give that. She does a great job of professional development and and really, really meeting us where we are and making sure we're not burning out. But she's she so sees the value in our community of practice. So it's, they're just a really, it's a diverse fun and they're just so brilliant and resilient. It's really like, that's what it makes it such an honor to be here and to get to keep growing with them. And we've really taken the program like ourselves, we have a training called Building a Better Future, and it is a training that you have to do before you can take parents, and we train, that we run, that we have the curriculum, we come up with the schedule and all that. So it's been really cool getting to just kind of build this and let it evolve organically as things change. And we were just saying for our last week of the training, the BABF training, the first couple years it was called, you know what? What changes would you like to see? Was kind of like the theme of it, and now I'm like, Hey, we get to show up and say what changes are happening. Like, let's talk about the changes that have happened and how we have changed it. Not this, not this repetitive, like, oh, wouldn't it be nice? It's like, No, this is the stuff we do. And I think that's the coolest part of no matter what sector you're looking at, when peer supports involved, things are getting done. They're not talking about how great this would be in theory. They're talking about like we did this. We started with next to nothing, and this is what we were able to accomplish, just by showing up with our experience and our ability to connect like that is the piece.
Luke Waldo 24:36
It's really exciting to hear that last point that that we're no longer in a theory phase of this work, but in the we can look back now on what we've done, how we've progressed, what's working and what we can continue to get better at phase right? So thank you for sharing that. I think it's really important. So I want to round this part of our conversation out with a question about where you see the greatest impact in your near 18 months and almost two years in this role.
Samantha Copus 25:04
Yeah, on that macro level, it's been great to see people showing up and interested in the conversation. On that micro level of what my day to day looks like and what it is like to be a Parent Partner. That magic in the car, right, those little moments I've had two parents assigned to me pretty much right at the same time. So like end of January, beginning of February, and like the change that happens when there's just one healthy, consistent connection in someone's life is indescribable. Like I have had a parent tell me, you know, I've told you things that I've never told anybody in my whole life, and and like, that's such a it's such a humbling and like, honor to be in that kind of space with someone and to be able to provide that kind of support. And like, I did it not by pulling teeth, or, like, even having some objective of, like, Tell me your deepest, darkest secrets. It's like you just could, or part of you needed to, and you were able to hear in this space with me and like that is, it's so huge.
And I have another parent that the transformation and like, how hungry they are for this connection, and how much like, it's changed the way they they do their life and the life they want to build. She just kind of, you know, off the cuff, said it to me getting into the car the other day after we'd done a couple of services, and she's like, you know, I was thinking about going back to school, and I was like, Oh yeah, you know. And, um, and, like, trying to not cry, or I'm like, I wanted to just grab her and be like, do you understand, like, how far you've come and, like, how how big that is, how big that is that you believe in yourself or and that you're aspiring to these things when, like, we met in February and and you didn't even really have a desire for stable housing, like you knew maybe you needed it, but you were not super involved?
So it's the transformation that happens when people feel connected and they feel believed in, and they and it is. It's that consistency of, I'm going to answer the phone, I'm going to answer the phone, I'm going to listen, I'm going to be my brand of person, I'm gonna show up organically too, and it just saves all this space for vulnerability. But it's been, I think I have, like, a moment once a week where I cry about something really devastating, and then I also cry about something really beautiful, and it's always, it's like, 90% of the time, like a little car conversation moment where it's like, oh, I think I'm just gonna and then they say this, like, wonderful thing about a plan they have for themselves. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we are going to do that. I would love to, you know, help. Let me know how I can help, you know. And it's just the or I'm so excited for you, and getting to really kind of let go of things and watching, watching the way they communicate.
Parents aren't wrong about how they feel when they're in the system. And the single most frustrating piece can be like feeling like you're screaming and no one can hear you and and like giving parents the ability to just really stand in their truth and feel heard, that's that's the stuff. And I've on the opposite end with workers. I make sure the only thing I'm bringing to the table is positive, like, I'm gonna hold up. Like, that's my only job. The system's really good at finding the problems. Me as peer support, I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna highlight their strengths and things I think like, and really magnify those moments. Like, no, you don't understand what it is to hear someone say that they're thinking about going back to school, like they're really putting a lot into themselves and their future, for their family and their kids.
And I've heard, you know, the feedback I've gotten from many of the workers has all been, Oh, it's so nice to know that, like, you're going to be able to get her there. Oh, she connects so well with you. And, like, she really wants to do what you do, you know, like, that kind of thing. And I've heard workers, even just in the simplest of conversations, be like, Oh, I'm really glad that you made that point, because I wasn't thinking about it from that angle, you know. And that's the difference between how we how we connect with each other, and being and, like, just saying it, like in passing, like, oh, that's probably because they're feeling this or, Oh, the vibe I was getting was definitely more this, not, not where you were going with it. And then they can stop and be like, Oh, yeah. And I think it's important that peer support shows the system professionals that change is possible too. It's, it's where the proof, you know. So I think it is easy to be jaded, but I think having peer support embedded can keep people compassionate instead of complacent.
Luke Waldo 30:28
Samantha, there's there's so much to reflect on in what you just shared, and I think it's all really, really powerful. Again, starting with with your point about the magic that happens in the car. When we launched the Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative, nearly three years ago, we spent the first year and a half hosting community roundtables to understand what's overloading families to the point of CPS involvement or neglect. And that work led us to identify four critical pathways, including social connectedness, which I want to explore a bit further here.
Social isolation is a growing crisis. The US Surgeon General released a report that identified social isolation and loneliness as an epidemic in this country, and, more recently, a report on parents' mental health that revealed that nearly half of all parents feel overwhelmed by stress most days. It's sobering, it's striking, but it underscores the importance of building social connectedness. We've learned from research over this past year and a half or so, if not longer, from people like Raj Shetty on social capital, that even one or two strong, supportive relationships can significantly improve long term outcomes in areas like health, work and parenting. And when you talk about the deep connections you're building with parents like the one who decided to go back to school, I think of the bridges you helped build to sustainable and more natural supports. I've long said about this initiative that I believe we will be successful if we move families towards the support of their own social connections, like family and friends, colleagues, neighbors, rather than on more system driven services.
So looking ahead, this vision ties closely to the future of initiatives like ours and and while we want to scale Parent Partner programs, we also want to empower families to build lasting, organic connections. So with that in mind, I'd love for you to reflect on how your role as a Parent Partner aligns with our four critical pathways, again, which are social connectedness, economic stability, community collaboration, where we really hope to improve coordination among systems and services to better serve families. And finally, workforce inclusion and innovation, which looks at how we might diversify our workforce to reflect those being served, and also address challenges like burnout. So feel free to take this in any direction that you'd like.
Samantha Copus 33:10
Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's that is the idea, and if I didn't highlight it, you know, shame on me. But I that it's one of the biggest parts of the evidence based model, is that people who had a Parent Partner had lower reentry rates because it wasn't about checking these boxes, it was, it was that they showed up, they found out how to get connected, and then they stayed connected to supports that kept them, you know, out of the system. So that's a huge point.
And the economic stability, I feel like Parent Partners show up and we can really, it's, we're doing warm handoffs for resources. Like, we're not just, like, here's a packet, you know. It's like, I've got, I've got a whole, you know, template of when parents are calling places, you're going to write down who you spoke to ,what time. This is the information you're going to give them, right? So, like, it's this really, step by step, getting them the resources they need to bring their their lives, some stability, whether that's food security, a W2 program, all these things I'm and I myself have to stay current with those things, because it all changes.
And also, I think this ties to the Workforce Inclusion, peer support is a job. It's a role. So like letting someone know, like you absolutely can take this experience you've had and it is worth just as much as an associate's degree from somewhere, if you can find the right pocket, you know, to fit in, and that there is a role for you, or that you can, you know, play a role. So that, for me, this is the first full time job I've ever had, and so like, to me, that's maybe a part of the economic security, stability.
Community Collaboration. I think the best way I could describe it is when you have lived experience at the table, we stand in the gap between theory and reality. I think professionals come to the table and they have, like, a lot of great ideas that that look great on paper. And a metaphor I've kind of liked is if you showed up at the doctor with a medical ailment, and this doctor gave you a prescription and said, Hey, this is going to cure your medical ailment. Here, just take get this prescription filled, and then you show up at the pharmacy and it's $2,000 and your insurance doesn't cover it. Well, then they didn't give you a solution, right? They didn't give you a cure because it doesn't fit the way that you need it to it. They didn't figure out the infrastructure to make it work in your life, or they didn't have that perspective to take that into consideration.
So again, this isn't a it's not a failing of the people of a system, but it's a system. It's a limitation of a system that sets people up to fail. And I guess that's, you know, brings me right into mandated reporting. We call it mandated supporting, and I'm gonna maybe butcher that definition, but it's kind of how it sounds, right? I'm not here to tattle on you. I'm here to help maybe recognize some problems and then really give some solutions where you feel you could use them. And I think that's the issue that comes up a lot, is this CPS comes into the realm of a family for a specific incident, and then instead of looking at all the solutions, they kind of find more problems and and then that, it snowballs out of control. And, you know, people feel very attacked, or, you know, they have to be secretive, and it immediately puts a strain on the relationships.
So Parent Partners come in, and one thing, there are things we have to report. Like, of course, in the out of home cases, it's easier because there aren't children there. So I'm I there, I'm limited in what I have to report. But, um, and I haven't run into this yet, but the promise I've made to my parents is that I'm not going to report something that you don't know about, and largely, I'm going to encourage you and help you advocate for yourself while you you know report, make a report about something, an incident that's happened. And that's kind of how we handle that realm of it.
Luke Waldo 38:03
Thank you for touching on so many important elements of our initiative and the many ways your work aligns with it. It's been been awesome having you and your Jefferson County colleagues involved. Your insights, both from your personal experiences and the regional perspective, are invaluable. As a statewide initiative, it's so important to understand what's happening in Jefferson County, alongside Milwaukee County and Eau Claire County, for example, it really helps build collective momentum through our learning from one another and building off each other's successes and challenges.
So to wrap up, I want to ask what might be the most practical question for our listeners today, how might communities implement a role like Parent Partner or a program like Parents Supporting Parents for those listening who are inspired by this model? What do you what do you believe are the critical conditions for implementing and scaling it?
But before you answer, I really wanted to revisit something you mentioned earlier, that I think is is key, this idea of valuing lived experience as much as traditional credentials, like, like, say, an Associate's degree. I think it's important to acknowledge that many organizations and systems have long prioritized formal education over lived experience, and that we should be considering the impacts of that. Beyond that, what other conditions, practices or opportunities do you think are essential to successfully implementing and scaling this model? And how do we ensure there are enough parent partners and enough support for you to meet the demand within each community?
Samantha Copus 39:43
I, I think every county should have parents, foreign parents. You know, realistically, if this is something, you know, you're a listener, and you're like, Wow, this exists, and we need it. To get in touch with DCF, and there will be, obviously, some of those materials out there for you to do that and to really look at our program.
But it really is about, you know, educating yourself and really understanding and evaluating your agency. How ready are they for change? And again, I think this, I love the name of this podcast, is overloaded, because that's what I think of the child welfare system and the workers in it and the parents in it, like everyone's overloaded, right? So, but really evaluate, like, take that temperature, right? And see, see where your workers are at, and make sure that they can see the value of having lived experience, and it can't, this is one of those things that cannot be performative. You cannot invite like, we're not show ponies. You know, it's not like look at and we brought lived experience and then completely disregard anything their suggestions or anything that they have to say.
You know, if you're bringing on lived experience staff to advocate for systems change, it's going to change. So be ready and in the best ways, right? And be ready to you can educate yourself and then be that continual learner, just like I think that's the best and funnest part of this work is I'm always going to be a learner. I'm going to learn more. I bet you have learned more in the last year and a half than someone with a Bachelor's or a Masters, because it's just been so much and so intensive and really rich, you know, on the ground training, but, and then, yes, it does have to be, you know, can you take accountability? And you know, do you believe that people could change. And I think one of my co workers said that really well, you know, they were having frustration within their agency, because she's like, well, they're sending people the treatment, and then people complete the treatment, and then they're kind of like, well, I don't know, maybe, maybe they still haven't changed. And she's like, well, if you're going to send people the resources, then believe that those resources work.
So that's kind of how I would, you know, recommend anyone looking into it and and also, like, look, look in your area, there very well could be, you know, if you're looking for a pool of, okay, yes, this agency is ready to go. We want lived experience here with this program, look in your area. There probably is, you know, lived experience voices and communities helping each other. So, you know, look into things that are kind of already near you. There's, look for the helpers, right? Like, that's what lived experience people are out there doing. I was, I was working with people with the same experience as me long before I even knew this role existed. So they're out there, they're doing it, and really seek to partner and align. I think I've used that word several times, but that alignment and that equity, like make it an equitable relationship with your peers.
Luke Waldo 43:21
I think that's a fantastic way to wrap up our conversation, this idea of partnership equity and acknowledging the real value that your experience and your voice and your advocacy has, not only for the families that you're serving, but for the system that you are now, now, a part of. You started the answer, I thought, really powerfully with the importance of checking one's own mental models, right? We have to as a part of systems, organizations and programs who are considering bringing lived experience partners into their work. We have to really challenge ourselves around our own deeply held beliefs, our mental models, around how the divergent perspectives, those that oftentimes clash with the individuals, the families that we're serving, that could get in the way of meaningful collaboration and change. We need to be honest with ourselves about the fact that the value that you bring is the divergent perspective. Is the perspective that makes our workers uncomfortable sometimes, where our decision making may be even more challenging, but if we're going to get to a more holistic perspective, we have to confront that, right? So I thought that was, was very, very well said, and very powerful. So so thank you.
Samantha Copus 44:33
I think we've covered a lot of ground here and hopefully piqued a lot of interest. And my only hope is I did this program I care so much about justice and all the hard work that's gone into it long before I was here, and the people coming on board to keep pushing through and keep systems changing. So thank you guys.
Luke Waldo 44:53
Thank you Samantha, I really appreciate you for taking the time today to share your experience and also for the really transformative work that you're doing for all the people that you are serving in Jefferson County and hopefully impacting through conversations like ours today.
I hope that this episode and insights from Samantha has you thinking more about how peer support might improve the social connectedness and well-being of overloaded parents and caregivers. Before we go, as always I wanted to highlight three key takeaways to reflect on as we move into our next episodes.
Thank you for joining us for today’s episode. We hope that you will come back and listen next week as we continue to explore how we might change the conditions that overload families with stress, so that families can thrive and children grow up with positive childhood experiences.
If you enjoyed today’s episode, please share with friends, family and colleagues. Also, leave us a rating or comment so that we can see your reaction and reach more people.
To learn more about the experts that you heard today, visit the Show Notes, which is where you will also find links to sources or information that were mentioned in today’s episode.
Thank you again for joining us. See you next week.
This podcast would not have been possible without the support and talents of Carrie Wade, who is responsible for our technical production and original music composition. I can't express my gratitude enough to Carrie for all she has given to this project. I'm also grateful to my team at the Institute for Child and Family Well-being at Children’s Wisconsin, who drive the Strong Families, Thriving Children, Connected Communities initiative and contributed to the ideas behind this podcast.
Finally, I would like to thank all of our speakers that you have heard today and throughout the podcast for their partnership, their willingness to share their stories and expertise with me and all of you, and their commitment to improving the lives of children and families. I'm Luke Waldo, your Host and Executive Editor.
As this season is how we show our work as we learn about the innovative systems change happening across our state and country. Please share your work that is changing the conditions for children and families by leaving a note in the comment section or emailing me. Thank you again for joining us. See you next week.